The air conflict of 7 May 2025 is likely to be specifically recorded in the past of aviation and armed conflicts. For the first time in history, there was a situation erstwhile a site with Chinese-built combat equipment defeated a site with the latest Western equipment. It should be remembered, however, that the modernity of combat equipment itself is not all. Political and organisational factors are equally important.
India and Pakistan erstwhile formed a single state, and these nations mostly separate between religion. In 1947, a multimillion-dollar group of Islamists decided to separate their inhabited areas from British India. A formally independent Pakistan was created then, although it was inactive a British domain until 1956.
Since 1947, muslim Pakistan has fought respective very bloody wars with India. The Indian-Pakistan border has never known lasting peace. This conflict is possibly very dangerous, as its parties are those with atomic weapons. It has been going on and on since the late 1940s. The 20th century and inactive no solution has been created that could definitely end it.
2025 Conflict
Air battles associated with the current Indian-Pakistan conflict began on 7 May 2025. The Indian Air Force then launched rocket attacks on Pakistan under the code name Operation Sindoor.
According to authoritative declarations by the Indian government, this operation was a consequence to the muslim militant attack on Pahalgam in the Indian part of Kashmir on 22 April, in which according to Indian sources 26 civilians were killed, mostly tourists. India then accused Pakistan of supporting terrorism, which Pakistan denied.
On May 7, an over-hour air conflict took place between the fighters of both sides. The exact number of aircraft active in this conflict for now is hard to determine, but it was most likely 1 of the largest air battles of the past fewer decades.
CNN reported that 125 Indian and Pakistani aircraft were active in the battle, which were in the air for any time. This information was then repeated by another editorial offices, including Newsweek [13] [14]. Pakistanis claim to have recorded full activity of 72 Indian (including 14 Rafale) and 42 Pakistani aircraft in the air. This gives a full of 114 machines, which is smaller than CNN.
Hypothetically, Pakistan is assumed to have picked up about 20-30 J-10, 40 JF-17 Block 3 and 130 older JF-17. I don't think any F-16s were sent to fight, possibly not to hazard creating a political conflict with the US.
Many indicate that a large proportion of aircraft in Indian formations were armed mainly with air-ground missiles, while the vast majority of Pakistani machines had air-air configuration, which gave Pakistanis an advantage in air-fighting.
If this was the case, this may indicate an earlier underestimation of Chinese fighter capabilities by India. Nor can it be ruled out that the Hindus did not anticipate specified a strong defence from Pakistani aviation – as initially their authoritative goal was only muslim militant camps in Pakistan alternatively than Pakistani state facilities. The Indians may have hoped that Pakistani aviation would not respond (or its reaction would be passive), as it did not respond during the American killing action Bin Laden Osamas, held in Pakistan in May 2011.
India most likely wanted to avoid the outbreak of a full-scale open war with Pakistan, hoping that the country would overlook the bombing of muslim militants in its territory [13] [14].
The incoming PL-15E missiles from Pakistan were probably, so for Indian pilots a large surprise, detected besides late to respond effectively. It is clear that not all PL-15E launched have hit targets. In India, remains of a certain amount of PL-15E were found that did not hit any aircraft [13] [14].
That might explain why there's most likely no sign of a rocket launch. Meteor against Pakistani aircraft, although specified information may inactive come to light.
Pakistan has been expecting an attack for days. any sources even say that a fewer days earlier India informed Pakistan of the anticipation of raiding muslim militant formations in Pakistan. The upcoming formations of Indian aircraft were detected by Pakistani aircraft of the early informing SAAB 2000 Erieye from a distance of about 300 km, which greatly facilitated the command of Pakistani fighters [14].
Most likely, no Pakistani fighter at the time of the shooting down of Indian machines was located above Indian territory – only J-10C PL-15E missiles flew in. All hit Indian machines have fallen in India. It is very possible that the aircraft of both sides, during the full duration of the battle, tried not to cross the border, but only to launch long-range missiles that flew into enemy territory [14].
Pakistan reported that 3 Indian Rafale aircraft, 1 MiG-29, 1 SU-30MKI and an unmanned aircraft [1] shot down the country's 7 May fighter aircraft.
Photo.1. The air victories reported by Pakistani J-10CE in May 2025 constitute a precedent in the past of armed conflicts, as the combat aircraft of the Chinese construction first defeated the latest generation of Western machines in combat.
Source: AVIC (Aviation manufacture corp of China)
On May 8, an anonymous U.S. authoritative reported to Reuters agency that these victories were most likely the work of Pakistani J-10C Chinese production fighters, though he did not specify whether it was all about all the aircraft shot down or just about Rafale [2]. Only PL-15E air-to-air missiles of Chinese production were likely utilized to shoot down Indian aircraft.
Photo.2. Indian Rafale DH.
Source: Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale
Photo.3. Long-range air-to-air missiles of the latest generation with conflict sides: at the top of the French MBDA Meteor, at the bottom of the Chinese PL-15. It is hard to say whether the Indians utilized their Meteors in the battles in May 2025, while much indicates that most of the air victories made by the Pakistani J-10C, or even all of them machines shot down with PL-15E missiles.
Source: Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(mission); https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-15
Photo.3. A demonstration copy of J-10CE, the export variety for Pakistan shown in Chinese shows Zhuhai Airshow in 2024 and presumably the same copy with marked air victories performed by Pakistani J-10CE in May 2025. There you can see drone shapes closer to the unspecified kind (reminiscent of IAI Searcher), MiG-29, 3 Rafale and Su-30MKI.
Source: Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-10 and CCTV China Central Television.
Rafale v J-10C
The 7 May battles are likely to be specifically recorded in aviation past and in armed conflicts. For the first time in history, there was a situation erstwhile a site with Chinese-built combat equipment defeated a site with the latest Western equipment.
Until a fewer years ago, this situation was unthinkable for many Western specialists, and Chinese fighters of the latest generation were referred to as "paper" suggesting that their supposedly advanced capabilities existed only on paper, and de facto They are powerfully removed from Western technology. These views were brutally verified in May 2025. It should besides be borne in head that both the Pakistani J-10CE and Indian Rafals EH/DH represent export options, somewhat impoverished against versions operated in the countries of their producers.
The main air-to-air weapon available to Rafale is the MBDA rocket A meteor with a scope of 100 km, although any sources say that in any conditions it is able to shoot down a large object up to 200 km. As a scope where there is simply a very advanced probability of hitting the target, even if it tries to maneuver and confuse the attacker (NEZ – No Escape Zone) officially is 60 km [4]. The velocity developed by Meteor is over 4 Ma. India purchased a full of 250 Meteors for Rafale fighters and besides placed an order in the MBDA to adapt these missiles to Su-30 and Tejas fighters, but the maker refused.
Another French air-to-air rocket in India's arsenal is MBDA MICA with a scope of up to 80 km. It occurs in both infrared and radar versions. In India it is utilized by Rafale, Mirage 2000 and Su-30MKI fighters.
It cannot be excluded that during the May 2025 raids, Indian Rafals flew exclusively in an air-ground configuration with SCALP missiles and/or AASM Hammer bombs without air-to-air missiles (or only with MICA missiles, without Meteors), although this is simply speculation not supported by any evidence [5]. It is possible that the Hindus considered that the escort in the form of Mirage 2000 and Su-30MKI fighters would be rather enough.
As crucial as weaponry is combat electronic equipment. Rafale has a RBE2 AA radar with active phase electronic scanning (the alleged AESA) with a scope of 200 km. In addition to mark detection, this radar can besides make reasonably accurate terrain maps, making it useful in navigation, especially in hard terrain. The maker shall declare that it has advanced detection capabilities for targets with a reduced radar reflectivity.
In addition, Rafale besides has an electrooptical reflection strategy for the front sector of Thales OSF (Optronique Secteur Frontal), which operates in both visible and infrared wavelengths. OSF allows targeting infrared-controlled missiles (e.g. MICA) at distances out of sight. It can be utilized to detect and identify air purposes (range 100 km), terrestrial and marine (effective scope up to 6 km). The advantage of OSF is that this strategy is completely passive, i.e. it does not emit any signals that the opponent could detect. However, aircraft built in stealth technology can be detected from any distance by thermal and optical systems specified as OSF.
Rafale is the latest combat aircraft of French production and 1 of the most modern that Western states produce. Although the prototype was flown in 1986, it is inactive being developed and is getting newer equipment.
World Air Forces2025 reports that the Pakistan Air Force has 418 fighters, including the 20 latest Chinese Chengdu J-10C (another 5 ordered), as many as 123 light Chinese CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder (another 35 ordered), 44 American F-16 (including 18-20 F-16C/D Block 52+), while the remainder are already rather archaic: 72 Chinese Chengdu J-7 (modified copy of MiG-21F), 69 very old French Mirage IIIEP/OF/RP and 90 Mirage 5EF/F/PA [3]. It is worth adding that Pakistani J-10C de facto represent the J-10CE export variant, which is somewhat impoverished against the standard J-10C that service in China. However, it is hard to tell what are the differences in their equipment.
Chengdu J-10 (NATO code: Firebird) was flown in 1998 and, like another aircraft of this class, is constantly upgraded [6]. Interestingly, there are conjecture that it contained many solutions derived from the Israeli prototype IAI Lavi fighter (broadcast in 1986), whose improvement was closed in 1987 and the documentation could be sold to China. However, there is no clear evidence of this, and neither Israel nor China confirm it. However, there is no uncertainty that IAI Lavi and J-10 are very similar. Song Wencong, the head of the construction office that designed the J-10, reports that the aircraft is simply a purely Chinese construction, an advanced improvement of an earlier 1980s J-9 task that did not enter service [7].
The exact data on J-10C equipment are unknown. It is assumed to have radar with electronic active phase scan (the AESA) or passive phase scan (the PESA) developed by AVIC 607 and CETC 14 institutes. This radar is reportedly able to track 10 targets while at the same time attacking 4 of them [8].
It's hard to tell what scope the J-10C radar has. any believe that its scope is only about 50 km, which seems unlikely, as it is more appropriate for 1980s radars. This figure most likely refers to the EZ region mentioned above. It can be assumed that, as with RBE2 AA radar from Rafale, the scope of the Chinese J-10C radar is about 200 km, even more so that the diameter of the radar from J-10C is even somewhat larger than that of Rafale (about 60 cm in Rafale and over 70 cm in J-10C) which may affect the extension of the scope [9].
Undoubtedly, J-10C besides has a visual and infrared reflection system, which can be seen in the photographs, as it is located in front of the compartment at the top of the hull. The older J-10A variety had a Hongguang-I thermometer. It is hard to estimation its range, although even utilized in the MiG-29 OEPS-29 thermometer from the 1980s had a scope of 20-30 km and could detect another aircraft passively. The fresh J-10C most likely has something much better.
The first J-10A had a Russian Saliut AL-31FN engine. However, as of around 2019, J-10C has been equipped with a Chinese Shenyang WS-10 engine (Wōshàn-10), which besides propells a stealth Chengdu J-20 fighter (NATO code: Fagin), as well as locally produced varieties of Russian Dry Su-27 fighter (NATO code: Flanker), that is, the Shenyang J-15 onboard (NATO code: Flanker-X2 / Flanker-K) and land J-16 (Flanker-N). So you can presume that this is now a full refined and proven engine. Many aviation professionals have late believed that China is incapable to produce specified advanced jet engines on its own.
The most advanced weapon in the Pakistani arsenal J-10CE is an air-to-air rocket PL-15E with a scope of 145 km. According to authoritative data, it develops a velocity of over 5 Ma, i.e. at sea level it can be over 1200 km/h faster than French Meteor [10]. PL-15E is an impoverished variant of the PL-15 (NATO code: CH-AA-10 Abaddon) [11], which in the first version has a scope of up to 200-300 km (precise data for now are impossible to determine). It has active radar guidance utilizing a phase-scan antenna. PL-15 is presently the main Chinese air-to-air rocket capable of damaging targets beyond sight. It occurs on the equipment of J-20, J-35, J-10C, J-15T, J-16, J-11BG and JF-17 Block-3 aircraft. PL-15/PL-15E missiles are only equipped with the PRC and Pakistan. The battles in May 2025 were the conflict cartilage of this rocket, as it was first utilized in a real fight.
The exact course of this conflict is inactive unknown. all day you can find online further reports of fresh amazing information, which is usually hard or impossible to yet confirm.
Pakistan and China, of course, are trying to make the best of the propaganda results of the fighting. Chinese tv showed J-10C with painted silhouettes of shot down aircraft: drone closer to the unspecified kind (reminiscent of IAI Searcher), MiG-29, 3 Rafale and Su-30MKI. However, these photos could have been taken in China alternatively than in Pakistan. This is evidenced by Chinese chopper Changhe Z-10 in the background, which is not utilized in Pakistan and a man with clearly Chinese features in the J-10C cabin. The aircraft on these photos resembles a copy of the J-10CE demonstrated at Zhuhai Airshow 2024 shows in China.
Interestingly, during the press conference of Pakistan's deputy air marshal Aurangzeb Ahmed, he stood up for Rafale aircraft, saying: This isn't about Rafale being a bad plane. It's a very good plane, if it's utilized well. [12].
Both Rafale and J-10C are 4.5 generation fighter aircraft. This means that the airframe represents an advanced variant of 4th generation fighters, but it has 5th generation equipment and weapons.
It is besides worth noting that the definition of a fighter aircraft is presently somewhat blurred. In the past, according to the Polish dictionary, the fighter aircraft was a combat aircraft specialised mainly in combating enemy aircraft. In the Western definition, fighter is frequently referred to as any fighter aircraft lighter than a typical bomber, but heavier than light assault and anti-partisan aircraft. The F (Fighter) designation sometimes even received aircraft that were barely fit to shoot down aircraft, specified as the stealth F-117 bomber (which did not have a game as standard, nor carried guided air-to-air missiles) or the F-111 tactical bomber.
Currently, most of the latest machines formerly classified as fighters de facto are alleged Multitasking Combat Aircraft (WSB is the authoritative word utilized in the Polish MON, the western name is MRCA – Multirole Combat Aircraft), which have advanced capabilities both for air combat and for combating land and sea purposes, and frequently for conducting reconnaissance tasks. WSB/MRCA includes F-16C/D, Mirage 2000-5, Gripen, newer versions of Eurofighter and Rafale, advanced versions of Su-30/Su-35, as well as Chinese J-10.
The fighting described here occurred very recently, virtually a fewer days before this article was written. Today, in an era of extended and always faster internet, it is amazing how rapidly reports from distant armed conflicts can be heard, even though they are frequently incomplete or falsified. In the past, specified information had to be waited at least a fewer weeks or months.
We most likely won't know the full data soon, or possibly never. As in all war, both sides effort to make a affirmative image of their country and slander their opponent. The information closest to the fact usually lies somewhere in the middle.
Source:
- [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/may/06/pacistan-india-attacks-kashmir-live-ups
- [2] https://www.reuters.com/world/pakistans-chinese-made-jet-brought-down-two-Indian-fighter-aircraft-us-officials-2025-05-08/
- [3] planet Air Forces 2025, Flight International, https://www.flightglobal.com/download?ac=106507
- [4] More in: K. Nicoń, NEZ – No Escape Zone, Aviation global 11/2019.
- [5] https://rafalnews.blogspot.com/p/rafale-weapon-load-out.html
- [6] Chinese Equipment Guide, US Navy Intelligence Office 2025, https://www.oni.navy.mil/Portals/12/Intel%20agencies/China_Media/China_Equipment.pdf
It is worth noting that modern Chinese combat aircraft inactive receive NATO codes, and Chengdu J-7 (modified copy of MiG-21F) which erstwhile wore NATO code: Fishbed (same as MiG-21), is now marked as Fishcan. This is due to the fact that the Chinese J-7 along with subsequent modifications began to disagree more and more from the first russian MiG-21.
- [7] https://web.archive.org/web/20090124001540/http://military.china.com/zh_cn/news/568/20070105/13858504.html
- [8] https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-j-10c-fighter-separating-myth-from-reality
- [9] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3310004/how-did-chinas-j-10c-match-french-rafale-india-pakistan-aerial-clash
- [10] Waiting in the Wings: The Asia-Pacific Air-to-Air Challenge, Asia-Pacific Regional safety Assessment, IISS 2024, https://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-dossiers/asia-pacific-regional-security-assessment-2024/chapter-6/
- [11] https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis//military-balance/2023/02/chinas-air-force-modernisation-gaining-pace
- [12] https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=saved&v=713092827950229
- [13] https://www.newsweek.com/india-Pakistan-125-jets-clash-one-largest-dogfights-recent-history-2069570
- [14] This is how India lost fighter jets in May 7th air conflict with Pakistan, https://www.youtube.com/embed/aHY8t_SABC8
Author: Jakub Marszałkiewicz
Editorial: Leszek B. Glass
Email: [email protected]
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