A friend of Nawrocki for the theme: "If I were Kaczyński, I would not sleep peacefully"

He won't be Kaczyński's puppet. I'd be careful here. He is very ambitious and I do not see him in this role," says Jędrzej Włodarczyk, president of the Gdańsk Left, who worked closely with Karol Nawrocki years ago. They worked together in his hometown. “I see him alternatively as the guy who wants to replace Kaczyński,” he adds.


Jędrzej Włodarczyk, present president of the Gdańsk Left, acted with Karol Nawrocki on the Gdańsk Council of the Siedlce District. Together, they were her initiators, and years ago, they collected signatures to make specified a council at all, though they were on completely utmost political poles. The period of their cooperation is 2011-2019.

You woke up on June 2nd morning and...

I thought Rafał Trzaskowski would win, but I'm not surprised. Turns out he's decided to rebel the masses. You could most likely compose a treaty on the causes of this failure.

You know him. Poles about Nawrocki only heard six months ago and learned from the worst side. How do you explain to a Kowalski who can't realize why he became president?

Once a politician was a statesman who had to cross from the councilman, through a MP. Only at the end was the president. present we are at a populist minute in past that has been going on for many years. Politics has changed. People lost religion in politicians, especially those of the establishment. There's a sense that they don't deliver what people want.

But what did Charles Nawrocki have?

Simple transmission. And paradoxically their weaknesses. So, he liked tobacco, worked at the Grand Hotel, did unusual things, was a boxer, did setups, etc. I think that in the planet of dislike of establishment politicians, paradoxically it worked in his favor. There was nothing in there that would shock people that much. And these "sins" may have made him more human. due to the fact that everyone's got any sins on their conscience.

Setting the full run in terms of the fact that there is no totally pure biography, made in the eyes of many people just a small victim.

We've talked about Charles Nawrocki before. You said, "Karol was always smart. He always took care of his business. He could set up what his career meant, "He always had the reputation of a smart guy." What's he truly like? What's behind his smile?

That's a very hard question. We weren't that close. But as much as I met him, he's surely very ambitious. I'm certain he has a imagination of himself as a leader. He's a conservative and populist. powerfully Catholic and powerfully national. Anti-communist. These are his 3 qualities. Right-wing populism is close to him.

But I don't know precisely what's behind his smile. He's definitely determined. A believer in himself and his mission. Very ambitious.



"Damn ambitious," says everyone who knows him.

When we were on the council of the territory of Siedlce, it was already clear that he had large ambitions. He had already made his career at the IPN, then became the manager of the planet War II Museum, so he was already affiliated with the Law and Justice and there he was on the rungs.

I warned my coalition colleagues that he had a fighter mode and an athlete mode that wants to win these elections.

He seemed to care a lot. That he's a bit of a go-getter. He took the strategy that he wasn't responding to these charges. He ignored them, did his job, and repeated the same message that the government was evil.

You warned me about Nawrock?

Yes, but of course on a tiny scale. I met with opinions, especially KO politicians, that he was a weak candidate and that he would definitely lose. How could a candidate like that win? He can't. I hear he's a man from nowhere.

I told you not to underestimate him. I warned and tried to convince Trzaskowski to show what kind of president he would be and what he would do. That he should cut himself off from the government a small bit and show that now he's the boss who's gonna be handing out the cards. My scope is limited, although it was not any peculiarly revealing advice.

Of course, it is not the government's responsibility that he was incapable to deliver many things due to the fact that we had Andrzej Duda in the presidential palace. But there was no clear explanation for what was happening. Plus any dynamics. Action.

In the run was Karol Nawrocki you know?

It had a plastic image in it. This smile, a small part of paper saying that the government is bad, and he's pro-social, that we request a change, etc. He kept saying that. He's always been a small bit like that, he liked the weed speech. He liked to talk in general. But it inactive works. People like a beautiful simple message.

He's a tough right-wing guy, but a small vague. Nation, Church and Anti-communism. It was always his main thesis. But in comparison with Czarnek, for example, he had no luggage, e.g. homophobia. He put any money on Trumpism. On populist, vague ideology, and it's not rather clear what it is. It's like a canned right, but it's kind of folk.

What kind of president could he be?

He will surely strive to weaken this government and possibly lead to earlier elections. However, his tools are rather limited, so he will most likely effort to torpedo the government. But I wouldn't presume it would torpedo everything.

Why?

He won't precisely be Kaczyński's puppet. I'd be careful here. He's very ambitious, and I don't see him as a puppet. I see him alternatively as a guest who wants to replace Kaczyński as the father of the benefactor of the Polish right. If I were Kaczyński, I'd be full of fear that he might have created a monster to eat it. And I'd be careful.

I wouldn't put it together with Duda 1 to one. Duda was a beautiful puppet president. Without his agenda.

One of the PiS politicians has late told me that Nawrocka as president will break the leash.

Affirmative. If I know Charles, I have no doubt. I don't see him as the president, who will take orders from Kaczyński, so on the right hand, it could be an interesting situation.

I think Charles will want to strike towards cooperation with the Confederacy and unite the right-wing camp. He'll have his plan. He'll definitely be building his camp. I'm certain I wouldn't sleep very well if I were Kaczyński.

Worst script for Jarosław Kaczyński?

In the short term, he is safe because, however, he chose a candidate and this candidate won the election. Here our demiurge of politics has achieved success. However, Kaczyński is not younger. So possibly there will be an effort to put individual in Kaczyński's place. It won't be a revolution, but a slow march and a long game about expanding influence.

A Nawrocks will build their own facilities. She'll put her men on the ballots, mostly effort to take over the Law and Justice. He'll be much more active. He will most likely effort to bring the Confederacy closer to him, which will besides blur any of the PiS, which is more of a organization of older people. I think Kaczyński's position will simply weaken. How else could it be?

Let me ask you, how did you 2 work together years ago? The lord of the left, the lord of the right.

We weren't in the Sejm. We were in the territory council. There were not many ideological conflicts. But despite the communicative that he was created to be a right-wing fanatic, I think he is more pragmatic.

Which does not change the fact that it has many anachronistic views and a kind of action that many can origin fear.

What do you mean?

However, he was able to work with individual who was bright-left like me. I was in SLD at the time. I participated in various protests and demonstrations. My views were clear, so it was essential for a certain amount of flexibility to work with specified a person, being a conservative.

At the same time, he always tried to grow his influence, to push. There is concern that it will display authoritarian tendencies. This is simply a broader trend of the global right – skepticism towards democracy in its liberal edition.

I remember you erstwhile said you wanted to hang a cross in the sitting room...

He was always very close to the parish. He always wanted to invitation you to our meetings. We had a very different approach to the function of the Church in the state.

But I think he's a small bit more pragmatic than it was in the campaign. A communicative about an absolute right-wing foundation was created. The concrete marionette of Kaczyński. Let's just wait and see if it's extremist Victor Orban, or if it's more careful Giorgia Meloni.

Which is?

It is known that in the run you demonize your opponent. But neither Trzaskowski is any aristocrat who has people for nothing, nor Nawrocki is simply a fascist or a man completely devoid of ethics. He never made me feel like a full right-wing fanatic.

In my opinion, the worst script would now be to dig in specified positions that we do not shake hands with the president due to the fact that he is completely unacceptable to us.

Now you gotta get down to the ground, take a deep breath. The planet doesn't end. The president in Poland has any constitutional restrictions. And the government can take advantage of that, too.

Nawrocki signed the Confederate program, but said he was prosocial. So he needs a pro-social, good bill on the table. Go into a political game with him and effort to say "check." Then we will see if he is more of a writer, whether he is prosocial or neoliberal. For my fresh Left party, there is besides a large function to be played here, due to the fact that it may be hard for the PiS president to reject certain pro-social proposals.