Marcin Piasecki: Poland and Germany are crucial economical partners. Today, the German economy is struggling with the ongoing recession, and Poland is developing further, but much slower than a fewer years ago. How can both countries return to dynamic development? Are there areas that can be treated as common areas requiring coordinated action? What are the current economical relations between Poland and Germany?
Sebastian Plotnik: The economical crisis in Germany is worrying. And since we are dealing with the Union's largest economy, this crisis is spilling across the continent. Poland, too, due to strong economical ties with Germany, is not free from this crisis, as can be seen in the growth figures. This is not a situation that anyone can enjoy. As far as diagnosis is concerned: if it were a cyclical crisis, half the poverty. However, this is more than that – economists are frequently referred to as "polycrisis" in this context. It means more or little that a short period of time occurs and imposes a variety of problems, which have no single simple answer. The essence of the challenge can be explained by mention to the example of a crisis in Germany 20 years ago, erstwhile the economy was suffering very advanced unemployment. At the time Gerhard Schröder could focus on this problem and carry out a deep improvement of the labour marketplace and the social state, thus stimulating the momentum of the German economy for years to come. That was enough. There are many more problems today. At the moment, we have the effects of pandemics, energy crisis, demography, war in Ukraine, protectionism. Europe is besides facing a immense challenge from China and the US, which subsidises their economies, causing our producers to lose their competitiveness. We are presently looking for answers to these challenges in Europe. 1 of them, which raises immense controversy, is the introduction of a customs work on Chinese electrical cars. Germany opposes specified action as it hits their export-oriented and business-oriented model in China. Our position is different. This already shows that it will be hard to search common answers to these challenges.
Marcin Piasecki: What's your diagnosis? What happens in Polish German relations? The weak German economy, on the 1 hand, on the another hand – the Polish economy, which is developing to an unsatisfactory extent.
Maria Urbaniec: I agree with the diagnosis. Indeed, we have a situation where both economies face problems. many challenges face Poland and Germany. Problems concern mainly the economical sphere, but they besides show that a wider diagnosis of our relationships is needed, which can facilitate the formulation of concrete solutions. It is crucial that these are long-term solutions, due to the fact that we live in times where electoral cycles are crucial and we frequently miss the long-term solutions. strategical reasoning is necessary, and we know that the situation which is presently taking place, namely the geopolitical conflict, is causing these problems to proceed to increase. Germany, which is so far a "engine" of the European economy, must compete in very different conditions, due to the fact that we have advanced energy costs, which is linked to fresh climate trends. We are besides seeing a decline in export competitiveness, and the German economy is mostly based on exports. This makes them lose their lead in global markets. We besides have another regions, more innovative, more dynamic, just mentioned China or the United States. It's all causing more and more problems. This evidently affects competitiveness and Poland and Germany.
Leo Mausbach: I besides see a very complex crisis on both sides of the Oder. Poland and Germany are economically located elsewhere. What do they have in common? They are at a time where the improvement models of the past scope a certain limit, both in Poland and Germany. If we look at Germany, we see a problem with exports, with competitiveness, with advanced solutions, and a very strong automotive manufacture encounters much more global competition. China is no longer just a place of inexpensive production. There are besides a fewer another factors. Germany must come up again if it inactive wants to keep its prosperity in the future. Likewise Poland. The economy has grown for many years due to low labour costs. However, earnings are increasing rapidly, as are the energy costs needed to produce goods. This means that in fact the Polish economical model based on subcontracting and competition by cheaper production besides reaches certain limits. The Polish economy must besides come up again. Polish companies should find a fresh direction for future development.
Marcin Piasecki: Polish-German economical cooperation has developed intensively for the last 35 years. This was indeed a natural cooperation. After the fall of communism Poland had a comparatively inexpensive workforce. Earnings in Poland are expanding very strongly, but there are besides another types of obstacles, specified as rising energy prices. Polish energy is inactive based on coal, so the carbon footprint is besides high. It's changing, but possibly it's changing besides slowly. On the another hand, Germany is facing global challenges in the global economy and is clearly hampering. For Germany Poland is simply a very crucial trading partner in terms of many parameters, located in leading places. A fresh beginning is needed – what can it look like?
Maria Urbaniec: Of course, Germany is Poland's most crucial partner and Poland is 1 of the key export markets for Germany. Even data from this year show that German participation in Polish exports is estimated at about 28 percent, which means that practically 1/3 of all Polish goods exported abroad is exported to the German market. This makes these markets truly very dependent on each other. Both economies are heavy integrated. Especially in automotive and chemical sectors. But it is worth noting that this is influenced by various political and economical factors. 1 of these key challenges is the uncertainty related to the European Union's trade policy or the fresh rules on sustainable development. Another origin is the global economical situation, due to the fact that we have an economical downturn in Germany, which straight reflects not only what is happening in Poland, but besides what is happening in global markets. erstwhile it comes to proposals, what can be done, we know, of course, that if economical links are as developed as between Poland and Germany, it is known that as 1 partner has problems, it besides affects the condition of another. Maintaining specified strong commercial relations with Germany is crucial for Poland. This is actually a very crucial sphere, but we should proceed our efforts to strengthen this economical cooperation in the context of fresh trends related to digitisation, innovation, due to the fact that this will let us to come up with a fresh thought or make a framework that will velocity up improvement or open up fresh perspectives for development. It is not that Germany is dependent only on Poland. Of course, we have very good economical relations, and as Poland we besides have competition in Europe. Poland must make so that it does not miss its place in Europe and can further make economical cooperation with Germany.
Sebastian Plotnik: Perhaps I will mention to what Mr Mausbach said due to the fact that he pointed out that both economies are facing somewhat different challenges. For Poland it is simply a substance of moving distant from a low-cost improvement model. It must find a way to control to more forward-looking innovation. And here the field of cooperation with Germany opens, although in my opinion, it should not be isolated and created from this bilateral subject – it is more about European cooperation. Germany, on the another hand, has a problem of dependence on the global market. Geopolitical tensions make them likely to gotta reorganize these large companies, possibly even divide them into a Chinese platform, a European platform, an American platform, as you can see from Volkswagen and another large companies. This will origin any investments to return to Europe and be located in Poland, among others, and trade streams will besides change. In the first half of 2024 Poland became a more crucial outlet for German exports than China. It is inactive hard to interpret these data clearly, but they are very interesting. They may be related to the fact that China is somewhat weakening, but they may besides propose that in the average word these economical relations with this country are weakening due to global conditions. If you are wondering what joint initiatives in both countries' economical policies could be, it seems to me that the first step should be to fix the single European market, which inactive has a number of barriers. In particular, guarantee that economical activity is not hampered by bureaucracy.
In Poland, the discussion on this subject is not so intense, but in Germany it is at the centre of interest in the current stagnation. At the European level, a field of joint initiatives opens up for Poland and Germany, e.g. to complete or decently build (because this task is just in the process) a union of capital markets. We already have a banking union, which is simply a good starting point. It is simply a pity that Poland does not belong to it, due to the fact that in my opinion it is not beneficial for the competitiveness of the Polish capital marketplace at the moment. A fresh field of integration would be crucial for companies, due to the fact that it can make it easier for them to rise capital for innovation. alternatively of 20 national niches, which have comparatively advanced costs and low efficiency, there will be 1 major European marketplace where capital can simply be raised cheaper. In addition, 1 more area of common action is open, but rather controversial, namely the creation of a European fund for innovation or an increase in investment. But there are already differences here, due to the fact that we know that Germany is firmly committed to the budget rules at home in the form of the celebrated "Schuldenbremse", the debt brake, and at European level they do not want to make a common debt. It is hard to convince them to repeat the pandemic fund mechanics and thus increase investment in the European economy.
Leo Mausbach: As for Polish-German business relations, we heard that they are very good, although there is simply a certain asymmetry, which, however, has decreased significantly. Poland's importance for Germany has increased markedly. I have the impression that in Germany, apart from the expert circles, this has not yet been full seen. I think that erstwhile it comes to fresh opening, a fresh thought for development, Polish companies must invest in their own brands, in product designation made in Poland. This is crucial for the function of Poland, which would be more perceived in Germany. Many things that environment us were actually created in Poland.
Marcin Piasecki: Let us talk about the immense challenges that are not only facing the Polish and German economies, but the European Union as a whole. This is simply a substance of the energy transformation already mentioned. This is besides a question of all the actions that are included in the definition of the Green Deal. Can Polish and German interests besides converge in the case of the Green Deal? due to the fact that in energy, they seem to be diverging...
Sebastian Plotnik: We are working within the framework set by EU regulations and indicating erstwhile we are to limit emissions and to what level. The controversy concerns how we will do it. The biggest difference between Poland and Germany is the approach to atomic energy. In Poland, there is simply a belief that it is essential to invest in this origin of energy and to imitate France, which has a much lower CO2 emissions compared to the energy produced than Germany. France is the function model here. However, Germany remains very skeptical of atomic energy. Actually, there are 2 chances. Firstly, after the subsequent elections in Germany, the attitude towards atomic energy can change. And the another thing is the technological revolution. atomic power plants of the next generation make repeatedly less wastes, which, in addition, are disposed of within 30 years alternatively than within 250 years as yet. They besides warrant a much higher level of safety. Another argument – these power plants can be small, built close tiny centres, located even in industrial parks centres. So a fresh space for conversation opens. It seems to me that in a year or 2 the dynamics of Polish-German discussion on energy policy may change. For the moment, of course, we are primarily afraid about the common interest in energy security, due to the fact that the situation of abrupt breakage of energy ties with Russia has put us before the request to look for fresh sources in the world. However, I think it would be worth reasoning about utilizing the negotiating force of the full European marketplace or of certain groups of associate States in a more decisive way. You can get better prices, better transportation conditions. However, I am afraid that nevertheless successful this or any another initiative could be, we must be prepared to see that in the European economy, besides in Poland and Germany, prices will be inactive much higher than in the US and China, our main economical competitors.
Marcin Piasecki: Is the Green Deal and energy issues something that divides Poland and Germany, or can it connect them?
Maria Urbaniec: I am an optimist and I will alternatively opt for the fact that there will be better opportunities and advantages for both countries from cooperation than disadvantages. First of all , it is crucial to realise that, of course , the differences between the 2 countries be and are very large. Poland is inactive heavy dependent on coal. This puts us in a hard position to reduce emissions. There is simply a request to modernise the energy strategy in Poland. This is simply a challenge for Poland, but it seems to me that, with this rich experience of Germany in the energy transition, we can find a field of cooperation. As far as Poland is concerned, very large investments are needed in renewable energy sources, which can make fresh jobs, increase innovation and competitiveness of the Polish economy. Germany, on the another hand, can play an crucial role, as they are the leader of the energy transition, and have been implementing policies for many years. Energiewendewhich promotes renewable energy sources very strongly. It seems to me that a combination of these experiences will aid to overcome the challenges that may arise or arise in connection with advanced energy costs or safe unchangeable supply. Both countries can and should cooperate on green governance solutions. Green governance is intended to contribute to the European Union as a whole, but despite different opinions and experiences, in the long run, Green governance can increase innovation and competitiveness of economies. There is surely a request for better communication erstwhile implementing different strategies, so that the public can accept changes, due to the fact that for now most Polish society associate this transformation with costs and burdens. On the another hand, I say that these issues can besides be presented differently, showing benefits or fresh directions of development. For example, the request to modernise the energy network in Poland or that fresh low-carbon technologies are needed is widely known. Poland cannot manage specified a transformation itself. Cooperation with another countries is needed. surely cooperation with Germany can aid to increase the possible for the improvement of renewable energy sources in Poland, due to the fact that this is simply a widely discussed and widely developed area. We have various renewable energy sources in Poland, among them wind energy is being developed. Poland is simply a country with a advanced wind energy possible at sea. Through cooperation with Germany, both countries can benefit from this cooperation. Another area that has late been heavy debated is green hydrogen. This is the technology that Poles and Germany are working on, of course, and another countries, but this technology can become a key component of the energy transition. Surely, joint investigation projects in hydrogen infrastructure can benefit both countries and advance energy security. For this to be possible, political support and strengthening of cooperation between companies, investigation institutions or public administration is simply a key prerequisite.
Marcin Piasecki: Let us return to the main topic, the European economy without Russia as an chance for economical acceleration for Poland and Germany. How is it actually read by German companies? Is it truly that this restriction, the simplification of almost zero economical activity in Russia can be an chance for Polish-German economical cooperation?
Leo Mausbach: Russia's aggression towards Ukraine has led to increases in energy prices. Of course, companies feel this, but I think that if we are talking about opportunities, this could be cooperation in the reconstruction of Ukraine. In terms of economical opportunities, this is evidently not the most crucial aspect. The reconstruction is designed to enable Ukrainians to return to their homes, to live again in their cities. But of course Poland, through its proximity, will be an crucial hub to support all this reconstruction effort. In Warsaw there are already regular meetings and fairs under the motto Rebuild Ukraine. Of course, due to the fact that Russia is deliberately attacking energy installations in Ukraine, there is simply a very advanced request to reconstruct this potential. Especially erstwhile we look at the Ukrainians waiting for winter and they will gotta live under the hard conditions that Russia has caused them.
Economic difficulties, specified as rising energy prices, make German and Polish perspectives for general climate protection regulations, possibly it is essential to postpone for a while. We must, of course, act for climate protection, but we should besides remember the situation in which the European economy is situated. Looking at the differences in energy policy in Poland and Germany and the accompanying public debates, this is simply a very hard subject for bilateral cooperation. There is broad cooperation around little controversial topics, specified as these windmills. We have very different energy systems in Europe, but they are linked, so we request to work together. There are competitive ideas on how to accomplish climate neutrality. The best solutions will yet break through, and we do not yet know which ones they will be – whether it is simply a hydrogen-based economy or fresh solutions like these tiny reactors. These are technologies that are not yet widely used.
Marcin Piasecki: W Germany is racing against time. And it is more dramatic than in Poland. On the 1 hand, we know that energy sources request to be changed to clean, zero-emission sources, while concepts are only just rubbing. I would like us to return to the Ukrainian and Russian issues. How can the economical relations of Germany and Russia look after the end of the war in Ukraine and the possible abolition of sanctions imposed on Russia by the European Union? Should Russia be considered a lost market? What about Ukraine?
Sebastian Plotnik: Let's start with Ukraine. I confess that I have a problem discussing the reconstruction of Ukraine. Many forums are devoted to this issue at the moment, and sometimes I feel that this discussion is somewhat lazy. We are talking about a future that has not yet happened, due to the fact that I realize reconstruction as a process of strengthening and reconstructing this economy after the war. We should first focus on maintaining the production capacity of the Ukrainian economy during the war and do everything possible to guarantee that it wins this war. That doesn't necessarily mean focusing on military matters right away. I would like to mention the question of the likely energy crisis in Ukraine over the coming months, due to the fact that 80% of energy infrastructure has been destroyed. I wonder what tools Poland and Germany gotta support Ukraine in these coming months. The alternate is another million refugees. On the another hand, erstwhile it comes to rebuilding after the end of the war: this process does not gotta mean that if we open markets, companies and funds will emerge, everything will start automatically. After all, there are besides dilemmas which will require joint settlements of the governments of Poland and Germany. I will give an example: the migrants or refugees from Ukraine, who are presently working here, contribute to GDP growth, mitigate the demographic crisis and are mostly beneficial to our economy. Do we ask ourselves, should they not return to Ukraine after the end of the war to let for reconstruction at all? Moreover, should we not even make a financial mechanism, let us call it labor. Return Fundto encourage the Ukrainians to return? We request to ask who will rebuild the country, not just bring everything to the issue of finance. We should discuss this very seriously, due to the fact that the alternate is that after the euphoria phase after the end of the war, there will be a slowdown in the rate of reconstruction, the frustration of society and the political instability of Ukraine.
With respect to Russian-German relations, it is hard for me to imagine that after the end of the war, and even after negotiating any regulation of sanctions, they will rapidly return to the same strength as before, due to the fact that they are presently deprived of a strategical component. Until then, the mines will not be that crucial to the economy of Germany. In addition, German investors are aware of the hazard of sanctions and the threat of property confiscation by the Putin regime. In short, any investment will be valued as more risky than in another regions of the world. And another factor. It is not that there is simply a space in Russia that is waiting for a return to a relation with Europe. It'll be occupied by others. They're already busy. At the minute Russia is becoming a very strong country with China. any even claim that the vassal marketplace for China, where there will be any different rules of play and will be dominated by another players. I think the return of German companies to that marketplace will be difficult. We have at least 2 decades of time ahead of us erstwhile these relationships will be alternatively superficial.
Maria Urbaniec: Looking at the title of today's debate, the European economy without Russia, it is hard to imagine, due to the fact that Russia lies in Europe. We cannot deny the reality that Russia is our neighbour. Of course, cooperation is not possible at the moment, but no 1 can foretell how long this will take. On the another hand, referring to the Ukrainian theme, I can boast that in Krakow we have been conducting seminars on the social marketplace economy for 2 years. We organize these seminars together with Konrad Adenauer Foundation with financial support from the Polish-German Cooperation Foundation, for which I thank you very much. During the seminars, we have the chance to discuss various topics, including the reconstruction of Ukraine. We have been discussing this with our Ukrainian partners for 2 years. This is so a tripartite debate between experts from Germany, Poland and Ukraine. There are many challenges for Ukraine. It is known that demography of the country is 1 of the biggest problems. It will not be easy to get Ukrainians who have gone abroad to return.
Companies from Germany and Poland have a chance to engage to a large degree in rebuilding Ukraine. It is worth noting that the full reconstruction of infrastructure, transport and energy will, of course, be immense resources and investments. Poland and Germany are not the only countries curious in rebuilding Ukraine. There are many more of these countries, but surely as close neighbours, having already developed economical relations with Ukraine in any areas, we have a chance to better manage them. It should be stressed that Poland is very powerfully supporting Ukraine humanitarianly and logistically. We can besides aid Ukraine in the construction sector, due to the fact that we know that Ukraine is very damaged. It'll be a large challenge. Germany besides has very strong manufacture and advanced technologies. This will besides aid to steer this cooperation differently and accelerate the modernisation of Ukrainian infrastructure. Of course, we're talking about the future now. We don't know how long the war is going to last, but we gotta think about the recovery plan. There are many expert bodies, many who are looking for specified solutions. From my position – as a scientist – above all, cooperation at the level of people, technological is important, I see a large interest in specified cooperation, even greater than before. As regards cooperation between Ukrainian partners, there are many areas where cooperation can be developed. It will surely be crucial to safe funds from the European Union and from various global institutions to rebuild Ukraine. The function of Poland and Germany will be crucial in jointly lobbying for global financial support, as neither Germany nor Poland can cover the losses suffered by Ukraine. An example instrument of support is public-private partnerships in various infrastructure, innovative projects that can play a key role, due to the fact that we know that this is simply a immense challenge for the full European Union region. Political support and the securing of funds will so be crucial. In order for concrete support instruments to be sought, war would gotta end first.
Marcin Piasecki: Are there any signs of future Polish-German cooperation on the level of companies about the possible reconstruction of Ukraine? Is it besides soon?
Leo Mausbach: As I mentioned earlier, conferences on reconstruction of Ukraine are held. But as far as business cooperation is concerned, I think it's most likely besides soon. Although, of course, in investment plans, or in plans for the improvement of the presence of German companies in Poland, somewhere in the back of the head there is always the thought that the fresh plant will not only produce goods for the Polish market, but besides Ukrainian market. Today, however, it is frequently heard that the crisis mentioned earlier makes it hard to foretell how the situation will develop. So companies hold back due to the fact that they do not have the possible of planning fresh investments, fresh activities. Many companies are presently slowing down or reducing jobs, so this is now a major problem. German companies are presently facing the challenge of how to last this hard period.
Marcin Piasecki: Let's talk polycrisis. 1 of the most crucial elements of the polycrisis is China and their political, economical and business relations with Western countries. The situation is very complicated at all these levels. Of course, we will focus on economics and the economy. I will admit that I have dealt rather intensively with this problem over the last fewer days and have met with 3 attitudes among economists and global economical specialists. The first attitude is "let us stay as it is" that is, let us not impose any restrictions on the Chinese economy from the West. In the language of the classic, ‘something like this’, due to the fact that the restrictions on Chinese exports to the European Union will end simply for Europe for different reasons. The second option is an utmost attitude in the another direction, that is to say, let us impose the most serious restrictions on Chinese trade and expansion. China has an irresponsible policy on a political but besides economical level, and this must simply be stopped. And 3rd position – indirect means that indeed the West has been seriously breathed in rivalry with China, and that solutions should be introduced that will reduce but will not undermine fundamental economical cooperation with China. And here lies the celebrated issue of electrical cars – let us impose specified restrictions, which will let European manufacturers to catch up or part of this distance. What script is likely? What consequences can be expected for Polish and German economies and bilateral cooperation?
Sebastian Plotnik: Let us separate 2 points. The first is the issue of economical competition in various industrial sectors. The European Union's entry into the protectionism mode covering all exchanges would make no sense, it would be better to focus on areas where the rules of the game have been breached. It was not the European Union that started the trend towards protectionist action, it was China that subsidized its export industry. Compensating actions should so be sought. This is not an action against the free market, it is simply a restoration of any equality or akin conditions of competition – especially with respect to information that only the automotive manufacture in China received around EUR 60 billion from its own government. The second area is sectors of critical importance to our security. And here, in my opinion, discussion, free marketplace versus interventionism, is little important. If Huawei or ZTE enter German telecommunications infrastructure, while being clearly related to the Chinese state, there is simply a suspicion that any critical, applicable data will be transmitted to the Chinese state. This does not only concern apparent issues specified as 5G infrastructure. I have late read that 1 of the corporations managing apartments for rent in Germany recommends tenants installing a circumstantial smoke detector in apartments. Data from this sensor can be sent to China due to the fact that the device is Chinese and the data is collected from it outside the EU. In my opinion, we are inactive not full aware of how critical any industries can be, especially erstwhile it comes to information. You can besides join ports, road management and so on. These are not abstract cases to mention even ports in Hamburg and Gdynia. So if I'm going to speculate in what direction these relationships will develop, it seems to me that we're going to have a decade or 2 of increasing protectionism, protecting our industries, and it's going to be selective. This was besides highlighted by Mario Draghi in his fresh study on how Europe should overcome the crisis. In sectors where Europe will never be competitive specified as toys or another comparatively simple things, there will be no major protectionist action. On the another hand, where valuable jobs are created, where the competitiveness of key industries for Europe is afraid and where safety is concerned, there will be increasing control. possibly after a period of tension, we will return to what any economists call globalization light, where rules will be loosened, but to this globalistic enthusiasm, the abolition of barriers and the creation of a large common global marketplace we will not be returning very soon.
Marcin Piasecki: Do you work with German companies all day? What is the strategy of German companies in the context of reindustrialisation and economical relations with China?
Leo Mausbach: As far as China is concerned, I think there will be more Chinese investments in Europe. This may be interesting, due to the fact that a fewer weeks ago a large plant in Konin producing batteries and batteries for electrical cars was bought by a Chinese company. This plant is an global company named Johnson Matthey. So these are very interesting processes that are worth watching. Reindustrialisation is truly a hope that works somewhere, but in Germany, in the public sphere, there is more talk of deindustrialisation. We now see in Germany that many companies, however, are lowering their production in the country. A large subject at the beginning of the year was Miele's decision to decision production from Germany to Poland to an existing plant. This decision, at specified a time, was very medial and rather shocking for Germans, due to the fact that Miele is simply a large company of household appliances, a company which is associated with the fact that advanced quality products are produced in Germany. At least that's what they thought. And the fact that specified production is carried to Poland only fuels more fear of deindustrialisation. The Bundestag elections are coming, the question of reindustrialisation will surely be 1 of the slogans in the fight for good results. We can already see that politicians are presenting ideas on how to encourage companies to invest in Germany again.
Marcin Piasecki: How will the European Union behave and how will the German and Polish economies respond to these powerful economical and geopolitical challenges related to China?
Maria Urbaniec: Indeed, we have a situation where problems have arisen late in cooperation with China. But we must besides realise that China is simply a hard but very crucial partner for the full European Union, not only for Poland or Germany. The point is that China has a long-term strategy that is hard to implement in Europe, due to the fact that there is more political stableness in China than in democratic countries where we have electoral cycles. This is crucial due to the fact that China's policy is long-term. Of course, this can be criticised, but I think it would be better to work with China. China's power came from their collaboration with the full world, as China was able to attract various investments from global companies. This caused the Chinese to learn how to make innovation very quickly. In any areas they are even better than the United States or Germany. In general, we have a broad possible to work with China. I agree with my erstwhile speakers that in critical infrastructure areas, we should be more careful and introduce any trade barriers so as not to make it easier to buy companies or invest in abroad companies in these areas. This is protectionism, but it is besides needed, even in the free marketplace economy to any extent. We besides know that not all countries are based on a free marketplace economy model, e.g. China has its own economical model, referred to as a socialist marketplace economy, which is characterised by a alternatively expansionary strategy. The consequence of this strategy is that China has not only crucial strategical interests in Southeast Asia, but is besides very active in the African market. They can attract Western business, they can build political and economical relations with different countries in the world, even though they don't like it. I hope that, despite existing differences, the benefits of cooperation will be more visible and will contribute both to a more effective economical and social transition, both in Europe and in the world.
Marcin Piasecki: That's right, business should work on a win-win basis. And possibly it's just a small more optimistic conclusion that comes from our meeting. Thank you for a very interesting discussion, during which we raised crucial topics, I would say that it is fundamental for the Polish and German economy, but besides for the European Union and to any degree for the full world.
This text is simply a edited version of the Forum dialog Plus Debate named Andrzej Godlewski.
Marcin Piasecki, writer “Rzeczpospolita”, deals primarily with economics and business.
Dr Maria Urbaniec, prof. of the University of Economics in Krakow and Head of the Department of Entrepreneurship and Innovation of the University of Economics in Krakow.
Dr. Sebastian Płacinnik, Director of the Polish-German Cooperation Foundation and prof. of Economics at the Institute of Economics of the Academy of Finance and Business in Warsaw.
Leo Mausbach, elder consultant for localization consulting in the Polish-German Chamber of manufacture and Commerce
