WELT AM SONNTAG: There has been a drastic turn in America's approach to Ukraine and Europe's safety in fresh weeks. What do you think of this, you and another Ukrainians?
Maxim Button: Generalization is always risky, but I see and feel that this phrase caused a shock in Ukrainian society. It wasn't entirely unexpected, but it's more than just a course adjustment, it's a 180-degree turn. erstwhile Ukraine's top ally abruptly becomes a possible ally of Ukraine's top enemy, this is shocking. However, Ukraine besides sees this somewhat different from another European countries. Ukrainian society has been integrating into European society for any time to become part of a European family. And it is crucial to keep this European identity and independency at all times.
WAMS: It seems Trump has besides resigned from Europe. Are we on the same wagon as Ukraine now?
ButkevychExactly. We had a feeling we were in the same boat before. Now it has become more visible. due to the fact that Europe abruptly realizes that it can find itself in a situation where it is alone without an ally overseas. And that she is besides exposed to risks that have not been seen since the Cold War, or possibly even before.
We should not forget that Ukraine is most likely the only nation to pay for its desire to integrate human life into Europe, starting with the protesters who were killed in Majdan in 2014. Ukrainians very much want Europe to become a player in global politics. A strong and independent player.
It starts with politics and ends with defense. Among the Ukrainian public there is simply a loud communicative that Europe has been 3 years since the full invasion of Ukraine and eleven years since Russia's first war to unite and realise possible threats. Ukraine bought Europe time, but unfortunately it was wasted or not utilized as it should have. The current situation is an incentive for Europe to regain its capacity to act, including on defence issues. This is most likely 1 of the good things that could come out of this very tragic situation.
WAMS: Conservative author David Frum talks about the fresh "predential abroad policy" of the US, many experts see the return of the large power policy. Does Ukraine endanger to divide between the US and Russia?
Butkiewicz: I do not know to what degree this hazard is real, but surely would correspond to the worldview of 2 politicians, Trump and Putin. It is simply a planet view in which power triumphs over the law and in which global humanitarian and global law, and in peculiar the European safety order, are replaced by spheres of influence. And in which large powers rule. simply put, a planet where powerful white men decide the destiny of millions.
This view has long been part of the ideological planet of Russia, and now it seems that Trump shares it. In this worldview Europe and Ukraine can be divided into spheres of influence. The comparison of the fresh Munich safety Conference to the 1938 Munich Agreement was so not accidental and was not just a metaphor. due to the fact that it then led to the division of another state.
However, Ukrainians regained their own identity through highly painful and tragic events and consider it essential to defend their territory. due to the fact that it's not just the territory, it's the people who live there. Their values, specified as self-determination, individual work and the ability to decide their own future.
WAMS: How long will Ukraine last without US help?
Butkiewicz: That would be very difficult. It's not just about the weapon, it's besides about the reconnaissance, about the transmission of information. This could be the decisive element. But our most crucial partner was and is the remainder of Europe. So much will depend on the size of military aid from another European countries.
At the same time, Ukrainians remember very well what the forecasts were at the beginning of the full invasion. We've been given a fewer weeks until the opposition collapses and we either gotta surrender or we're destroyed. But that did not happen. We managed to do things that any of our partners thought were impossible. This is so another “unable” task. Ukraine is besides in much better military condition present than at the beginning of the invasion.
It is besides another war — a drone war. Ukraine has adapted well to this. We have found technological ways that give us an advantage over disproportionate human, financial and military resources. We request global help. But in the meantime, we fight with the tools we have.
WAMS: What about the morale of the population?
Butkiewicz: These are hard times. Things that were disturbing or different at the beginning of the invasion are now part of a fresh normality, even for civilians. These include raids, regular civilian casualties, power outages and curfews. At the same time, so many people have lost so much in these 3 years. Each individual has his own martyr communicative and each household has its own martyrs. All this suffering is besides crucial to just unconditionally capitulate.
Trump attack on Zelenski has led to a predictable outcome. usually Ukrainian public opinion is tough, we can be very strict, including with the authorities, and even personally with president Zelenski. But Trump's attacks led people to unite behind our army and behind Zelenski as a symbol of Ukraine. The level of mobilization in society is so presently highest since the beginning of the invasion. Many people are ready to proceed to defend Ukraine.
JIM LO SCALZO / Pool / PAPIn the photograph from the left: president of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenski, president of the United States Donald Trump and Vice president of the United States J.D. Vance during a gathering that turned into an argument, White House, Washington, USA, 28 February 2025.
WAMS: Europeans fear that in the future they will gotta face aggressive Russia alone. As individual who fought for the freedom of his own country, what do you advise the remainder of Europe?
Butkiewicz:
WAMS: And after Ukraine, this can affect another European countries.
ButkiewiczExactly. On the second day after I became a prisoner of war, Russian propaganda officers visited me and tried to convey any ideological message. It contained that they would take care of Ukraine. And erstwhile this “Ukrainian phase” comes to an end, they will have the most combat-trained army in Europe, and possibly even in all of Eurasia, and will be ready for further action.
I asked them how far they wanted to go, possibly to Poland, or possibly to the Baltic countries. And they ridiculed that there was no reason to settle only for Poland. Of course, they were not people who made their own decisions, but this reflected the common temper among the professional military. erstwhile I later had access to Russian television, their propaganda programs were saying what they were saying to this day. Namely, it is not a war against Ukraine due to the fact that in their worldview it does not even be as an independent state. It is simply a war against the “decadent liberal West” who supposedly forgot what “true conventional values” are. That's how they see it.
It would be a shame if Western European countries woke up 1 day and realized that they were the mark of the attack from the very beginning. The sooner European and German public opinion realises this, the better it can defend its freedom, democracy and fundamental values.
WAMS: You experienced the brutality of the Russian war device firsthand. What does it say about Russian society that it is ready to abandon humanitarian norms and that there is almost no opposition in society?
Butkiewicz: It's something I didn't realize before I was imprisoned. I've talked to quite a few local prisoners, Russians and any prison guards. From these conversations, I learned that this was not just a prison situation. It was a mentality that permeated the full Russian society. People are not appreciated, and values specified as individual freedom and freedom of choice barely exist. It all comes down to obedience.
I have frequently heard critical remarks about the state authorities in Russia — but Putin, who is seen as a monarch. They said they were dissatisfied with the situation, but they couldn't change anything. And: You Ukrainians were so stupid that you protested on Majdan. What did this accomplish? People died and for what? Better be quiet. Better to be fed, to work and to obey. due to the fact that the powerful do whatever they want. We're powerless.
WAMS: So there is simply a fundamental fatalism?
ButkiewiczYes. But this is besides the reason why so many conspiracy theories be in Russian society. They believe there is simply a group of people who regulation the world, and they themselves are just objects they manipulate. They can't imagine people actually trying to make a difference. They don't see average people as having cause.
