Mr. Ambassador, do you think something has changed in our relation over the last 8 months?
– I think that, in fact, nothing has changed. Our relationships were very bad and they stay bad. The emotional-psychological atmosphere in which our relations are located has changed. The level of rusophobic hysteria in Poland broke fresh records. This has, of course, an impact on the temper of Polish society, on the situation of Russian citizens staying here, Russian authoritative institutions, on the nature of authoritative contacts which have been reduced to an absolute minimum. The speech of the statements of Polish government officials was completely unacceptable, offensive to Russia, its citizens and authorities. So in our relationship, unfortunately, nothing good is happening and we anticipate nothing good in the close future.
According to Russian diplomacy, does the Polish side violate the Vienna Convention? I mean various restrictions, actions of the Polish authorities against diplomatic representations of Russia.
– Indeed, according to the Vienna Convention, the host country authorities should warrant normal, favourable conditions for the functioning of abroad diplomatic missions. Unfortunately, this rule has not been respected recently. Immediately after the launch of Russia's peculiar Military Operations in Donbasa and Ukraine, bank accounts of the embassy and the Russian commercial mission were frozen at the end of February under a completely absurd pretext that there is allegedly suspicion and proceeding on the anticipation of utilizing their funds to fund terrorism. He will mention to the anti-money laundering and terrorist financing bill. The decision to frost our accounts was made by the prosecutor, first for six months and later for another six months – by March 2nd next year. However, there are also problems which, possibly in a formal sense, are not related to decisions or actions of the Polish authorities, but their character allows us to believe that we are dealing with any action coordinated or inspired by the authorities. In May, we learned that all Polish insurance companies refuse to insure our cars. Finally, we were allowed to buy out insurance, but on very unfavourable terms. We are constantly dealing with refusals to cooperate with us Polish companies. This is frequently justified by the political situation. The rule of reciprocity applies to diplomacy and global relations.
Polish diplomatic and consular missions in Russia are so facing akin difficulties. Of course, this is not a reason for our joy or our Polish colleagues, but I would like to remind you that the initiative was entirely and exclusively on the Polish side. I had the chance to ask our Polish colleagues from the Ministry of abroad Affairs about the meaning of these actions, which look alternatively petty and unworthy. It is not known what our partners, as we now say, are trying to accomplish or were Polish partners. It is clear that our diplomatic and consular staff, regardless of these difficulties, will not change their political position and this will not affect our performance of our duties. I didn't get a clear answer to my question. We accept that and work under conditions that are.
There was a view that these actions were aimed at prompting Russia to break diplomatic relations. Is that a legitimate opinion? Does the Polish side want to preserve diplomatic relations?
– I don't know, it's hard to guess. The question asked me straight whether the Polish authorities intend to break relations or lower their rank, I received a negative answer. I was assured that there were no specified plans.
Does the Russian side consider this possibility?
– We have said from the beginning that we are in favour of maintaining diplomatic relations, authoritative channels of communication and dialog under all circumstances. That's the function of diplomacy. Diplomacy should work to the end in seeking solutions to emerging problems. Breaking diplomatic relations is simply a last resort. As long as possible, relations and dialog should be maintained.
The Polish legislature late adopted a resolution which recognises the Russian Federation as a terrorist state. How much can this affect our relationship?
– However, abroad policy falls within the competence of the executive authorities. specified resolutions, in this case the resolution of 1 of the chambers of the Polish Parliament, are alternatively a vent of emotion, which we evidently acknowledge, but we do not intend to give it much meaning, knowing that – at least at this phase – it will not have any applicable consequences. As far as the content of this resolution is concerned, as I have already said, we have heard a lot over the last 8 months, including those in power who make decisions on applicable abroad policy. We take all this into account in our approach and actions, we draw the right conclusions.
And how does the Ambassador measure the activities of Minister Zbigniew Raua as president of the Organisation for safety and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE)?
– let me to abstain from any assessments of your minister’s activities. We have a mostly critical, negative assessment of Polish leadership in the OSCE. We believe that here, too, the general rule is being violated that diplomacy should function independently of the circumstances, and that the fulfilment of the duties related to the chair of the OSCE should consist in strict adherence to those papers of organisations which specify this function. The main principles of leadership in the OSCE are the principles of impartiality, correctness and effectiveness. However, it seems that during the last 8 months the Polish leadership of the rule of impartiality has clearly not respected. Conversely, he tries to transform the OSCE Forum into another channel of anti-Russian activity. This is definitely not the goal of this organization.
Returning to the conditions of the mission in Poland, in various interviews the Ambassador emphasized that you feel safe in Poland. Has anything changed in this case? Are there any threats not only to Russian diplomats but besides to Russian citizens?
– As for the staff of our diplomatic and consular posts, we have not noticed any serious incidents, events that could pose a physical threat – yes, but for the celebrated episode at the russian Soldiers Cemetery in Warsaw on 9 May. Yes, there is simply a general atmosphere, intellectual pressure. I said that I appreciated the actions of the Polish Police and another applicable services, which during the demonstrations organized before our embassy and consulates, secured order and did not let any illegal activities. There have been any insignificant incidents. individual fired a weapon at the building, sprayed paint on the signposts in front of the gate, but they're insignificant events. With the strength of emotions that are awakened in Polish society, it is hard to warrant that any incidents against Russian citizens cannot occur. We, embassy and consulate workers, are under the protection of our status. But erstwhile it comes to average Russian citizens in Poland – according to the Polish authorities, it is hard to warrant that they will be safe. Until now, however, we have had no complaints about these matters. I hope that this will not change and that, regardless of everything, the Russians and Poles will proceed to keep average human relations.
Meanwhile, the Polish MFA recommends Polish citizens to leave Russia.
– We have not issued specified recommendations to Russian citizens. Although it seems to me that there are virtually no negative emotions towards Polish citizens in Russia. possibly our Polish colleagues have little reason to appeal to their citizens than we can have here. Meanwhile, I repeat: neither our MFA nor the embassy of specified recommendations have announced to Russian citizens.
This year it has been 30 years since the Treaty was signed between the Republic of Poland and the Russian Federation with friendly and good neighbourly cooperation of 22 May 1992. How does the Ambassador feel about him?
– We have respective twelve cooperation agreements in various spheres, a 1992 basic treaty, an intergovernmental agreement on burial sites and memory of victims of war and repression. Almost no of these agreements are working right now.
So, theoretically...
– In practice, they do not work, are not implemented and respected. possibly now is not the time to discuss analysis and discussion of their future fates. We gotta wait until there's any clarity in our relationship.
A theoretical question, possibly hypothetical: what should the Ambassador think should happen to normalize our relationship? What should the Polish side do, Russian?
– By February of that year, I answered this question many times. all time I said that there are no obstacles between our countries that we cannot overcome so that we can live next door, side by side, work together, even given the fundamental differences in global matters, including those concerning Ukraine. It was so only about the existence of the political will of the Polish side. I remind you that it was the Polish side that decided to break political contacts at ministerial and higher level in the spring of 2014. She joined and enforced Western economical sanctions against Russia, which we had to respond to. She started to retreat from cultural cooperation, etc. We did not take specified initiatives, but only responded on the rule of reciprocity erstwhile we considered it necessary. I stress that the initiative of worsening our relations always came from the Polish side. We have not sought and sought. But setting conditions for us, telling us to change our policies and behaviour, and then they agree to normalization, we categorically reject. We have our own interests and we will defend them. In February, our relation was zeroed out and the overall situation became even more difficult. present I don't even want to make assumptions when, under what circumstances, this could change. For now, there is simply a peculiar Military Operation to be completed. All targets formulated by the president of the Russian Federation will be met. And then we will most likely find ourselves in any fresh reality that will enable us to rethink our relations with the full West, including Poland.
Recently there has been information about the anticipation of utilizing the alleged dirty bomb by the Ukrainian side, which could besides endanger the territory of Poland. What action does the Russian side take on this matter?
– I think we've already taken all the essential steps. Our authorities have informed of the preparations for specified provocation by Western governments and any of our another partners, the UN. We hope that, erstwhile the Western partners pay attention to this, they will take the essential measures to prevent this from happening. Of course, they do not officially admit that they let the anticipation of specified actions of their subjects in Kiev, they accuse Russia that it is she who is preparing to usage atomic weapons in the territory of Ukraine and with specified accusations tries to distract from it. However, the script of this provocation has been revealed and it will be harder to implement. Therefore, it remains to be hoped that the objectives of our message on this substance will be achieved. In general, we see, of course, the objectives of spreading the the thesis that Russia allegedly plans to usage tactical atomic weapons. Our doctrine clearly defines the circumstances in which atomic weapons are permitted. Firstly, it is simply a atomic attack against the Russian Federation. Secondly, aggression against us with conventional weapons erstwhile the threat of our country is posed. There are no specified circumstances in Ukraine. The discussions on this subject are so irrelevant. Especially since the operation itself and the restraint shown by the Russian authorities, including the military, clearly show that we are not striving for any unjustified usage of military force. We are trying to accomplish the objectives of the operation, saving as much as possible the infrastructure of the areas covered by the war, avoiding casualties among civilians and our own soldiers. If the Ukrainian authorities had a akin approach, the operation would have ended long ago and we would have reached agreement on matters related to its objectives, avoiding the losses that the Ukrainian side, its armed forces and another armed formations had primarily suffered. As in the Polish proverb, from the Western side we have a turn of the cloth.
Some Western politicians, late for example Ben Wallace, the British Minister of Defence, are starting to advocate settlement of the conflict through negotiations. How do you justice their position?
– The Russian President, our abroad minister and another politicians have spoken on this subject many times. From time to time, we hear specified statements from Americans and representatives of another Western countries. However, there are no signals in this case from authoritative channels. And erstwhile we start to ask what the thought is, we hear that we are to return to Ukraine everything that we have allegedly wrongfully taken from her; to admit our failure, to practically announce the surrender and to admit it all in negotiations. Of course, that's ridiculous. Of course, all conflict ends with negotiations, agreements and another arrangements. This conflict will besides end erstwhile the objectives of the peculiar Military Operations set by the president are full met.
They can theoretically be achieved by peaceful means.
Of course. It was possible and before the surgery began. At the end of last year, the Russian authorities clearly defined the conditions for settling our contradictions with the West on Ukraine. From today's point of view, these conditions were very moderate, feasible, pragmatic. Unfortunately, our alleged non-partners rejected this manifestation of our goodwill. They did it in a alternatively haughty way. You remember that the comments were kept in specified a spirit that all this was unrealistic, unacceptable. And they asked what we could do. They didn't take it seriously, they underestimated it, and now they're dealing with a situation that nobody wanted, but they just made us do.
From the point of view of Poland, it is crucial to ask whether the objectives of the operation concern the full territory of Ukraine, including its western circuits. Many experts discuss the future of this country and its shape.
– The objectives of the peculiar Military Operations – denazification, demilitarization, neutral status, rights of the Russian-speaking population – concern, of course, the full territory of Ukraine. As operations progress, the Ukrainian regions choose, as we see, a different nationality. This process may be expanding. It's besides early to talk about another things.
Some Russian media print the thesis on Polish interest in the western part of Ukraine. What does the Ambassador think?
– I'm not going to comment on these debates due to the fact that I don't have any credible grounds for it.
Let's decision on to human relations. Do you have data about the number of Polish citizens visiting Russia after 24 February?
– By July, it was impossible for tourists to enter Russia due to the coronavirus pandemic. On 15 July these restrictions were lifted and since then entry has been possible according to average procedures. I don't have accurate data, but I think it's a tiny number, given the situation.
But having specified plans, Poles can address Russian consulates in visa matters at any time?
- Yes, of course. By average procedure.
Regardless of the limitations of the Polish side for Russians?
- Yeah. The Polish side maintains the restrictions introduced in March 2020, although they do not apply to citizens of another countries.
Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. How about a fewer more words to the readers of “Polish Thought”?
– I want to want readers of “Polish Thought” health, good luck and that, sooner or later, better times will happen in our relations.
Thank you.
Matthew Piskorski spoke
Think Poland, No. 47-48 (20-27.11.2022)
