Leszek Miller for Theme: Nawrocki defends the followers. The priest of this religion is Kaczyński

– Those who declare willing to vote for Karol Nawrocki and those who defend him are not voters, they are followers. They believe as Jarosław Kaczyński said, due to the fact that he is simply a priest of this religion," says Leszek Miller in an interview with Temat. The erstwhile Prime Minister in a conversation with us commented on the scandals related to the PiS candidate. We asked who would be better served by a beer with Sławomir Mentzen, why the left could one more time compose down elections for losses and what would happen if Karol Nawrocki became president.

Łukasz Grzegorczyk: Prime Minister, isn't this all a small of your fault?

Leszek Miller: I realize you're joking now.

Half joke, half serious. But present the consequence of Sławomir Mentzen shows where people are looking for an alternative. 10 years ago, it was definitely not Magdalena Cucumber.

What does Mrs. Cucumber gotta do with the current election situation?

She showed the weakness of the left, which continues until today.

Ms Magdalena Ogórek besides sought a seat in the Sejm, taking part in the SLD

from Rybnik with the kind support of Alexander Kwasniewski and another colleagues. This woman was mostly the star of the Democratic Left Alliance.

The Left of Włodzimierz Czarzasty aimed to defy the right and the far right. They always said they were here to prevent this utmost right from being ruled. The left in these elections failed, with the scale of losing to the far right must be a shock to them. Making good faces isn't gonna help.

So what's missing again?

Just the left is what it is. Directed by those leaders who are. It achieves results that consequence from leadership. For me, the left in Poland ended erstwhile Vladimir Czarzasty crashed and liquidated the Alliance of Democratic Left.

I have nothing to do with this left. But I'm thinking, if she wanted to do something, she'd gotta first replace the full management, second, completely modify the program.

And convince the young voters.

Some of the young are there. I am more afraid – and I realize that they should be even more – that they are so decisive in defending women's rights, but they do not vote for them.

Adrian Zandberg has not officially supported anyone before the second round. Here too, the left could not talk with 1 voice.

The left will not talk with 1 voice due to the fact that it is profoundly divided. Adrian Zandberg, on the another hand, has repeatedly said that he feels the same disgust for the PO and the Law and Justice, so he will not abruptly change his mind, it's obvious.

It is simply a fairy tale to convince any politicians and publicists that the leader can redirect the interest of his voters to another candidate. That's not how it works. Zandberg or anyone else can call on voters to vote for Trzaskowski or Nawrocki. But in the end, they'll do whatever they think is right.

Are Poles not ready for a typical left-wing president?

Poles – contrary to this – are not ready to leave the duopol. I keep proceeding that this duo needs to be eliminated, but he's doing great. The consequence in these elections only confirms this, so if individual wants to liquidate the duo, they gotta wait many more years.

You can see any crack, even though Mentzen's first round.

We're about to know the consequence of the election in the second round, most likely with a minimal difference of vote. It's just another proof that the duo is doing great.

On beer with Mentzen will Rafał Trzaskowski or Karol Nawrocki gain more?

First of all, both candidates allowed Mentzen to turn into a quarterback. First Nawrocks, then Trzaskowski entered the function of students who are examined by a serious professor, asking them questions, making grades. This is something unheard of.

They should not agree to specified formulas. They should tell Mentzen, "Sir, your function is over. And don't bother us." As far as this beer is concerned, I do not share the view that it helped anyone.

Did it hurt?

It harmed both parties due to the fact that the electorate, who is in the fervor of electoral struggle, does not like situations in which he may fishy that we are dealing with any kind of set-up. Suddenly, the players who fight each another wink at us and say, "No, this is simply a fake fight, we can always have a beer here."

So both candidates are gonna count?

I think you can drink beer and date, but never before the election, due to the fact that it's easy to lose any of your support.

Is this even the weirdest run you remember?

All campaigns had something different in them. This 1 is most likely different in the sense that first it is comparatively long and second it is highly fierce.

And thirdly, he's a small meme. Do you have a favorite?

If anything got my attention, it was the 1 I made available: Nawrocki is on the air

And he plays the function of president and at the same time he eats any unknown substance.

We'll get to that.

The ceiling of attack and common charges in this run is highly high. I mean, especially the ones relating to Mr. Nawrocki. I don't think we've met with specified allegations.

"A residential affair", previously a confusion with the usage of the apartment. Then the setups, now the communicative with the Grand Hotel that Onet revealed...

Topics relating to the past are of course important, but if Polish society were not so corrupted for 8 years of the regulation of the Law and Justice, I think the study of the ultimate Chamber of Control on the activities of the Institute of National Memory, led by Mr Nawrocki, would have made a greater impression.

It covers the last 3 years of the IPN's operation, indicates a deficiency of economics, possible abuses, concerning measures of PLN 72 million. According to the study of NIK, nearly 30 million PLN was spent in violation of the law, unfairly

And in an unprofitable way.

That is adequate to full discredit, discredit a man who wants to hold any public position, not to mention, of course, the function of president of the country.

Not for the PiS, they're behind it. Where's the line in defending him?

There is no border due to the fact that those who declare willing to vote for Nawrocki

And those who defend him are not voters, they are followers. Confessors, as we know, do not ask any questions, but simply believe, as if individual had revealed it to them.

In this case, they believe as Jarosław Kaczyński said, due to the fact that he is simply a priest of this religion. And just so I don't know what else happened, these people will trust Nawrock due to the fact that he trusts him, and anyway, that's what it looks like outside, Jarosław Kaczyński.

A bit sad that after the debate, which millions of Poles watched, we will remember mainly the unusual motion of Nawrocki. average discussion wasn't actually there.

Of course, besides, we have these statements from Nawrock's staff that he's been tested for drugs, that nothing has been discovered. It's not about whether it's a drug or not. But the point is that a presidential candidate is incapable to withstand adequate time in respective media situations and must take any nicotine sachet, which shows that he is incapable to cope.

He promotes nicotine and can't be president. What Andrzej Duda pointed out, who said that a man who cannot stand and must support himself with a substance, is not suitable for this kind of office.

President Duda has already justified Nawrocki's kibolian stances, that any youths were more stormy and others were less.

That's a bullet to the fence. Mr Nawrocki's youth has long passed.

One poll showed that almost 75 percent of Poles want to vote in the second circular on "smaller evil". For any it will be Trzaskowski, for others Nawrocka. However, it is simply a failure of the strategy that a large majority of voters must go to urn

with specified conviction.

Here, we request to measurement the voters of the undecided or those who redirect their support. I don't know what the group is. possibly 20 percent, possibly a small less, but this group needs to be fought for. Besides, I think both candidates are aware of that.

And they're trying to lose to the center, to the indecisive. Those who have already decided will most likely not change their preferences.

You have already admitted that you will vote for Rafał Trzaskowski. And you explained that it was by reason, among others. How about "minor evil"?

I am voting for Rafał Trzaskowski for the 3rd time. But I am voting for him due to the fact that, of all the candidates, and I have considered the full thirteen, Rafał Trzaskowski has the top competence to execute this kind of service.

I look at professional preparation, general professionalism, cognition of the international, interior arena. From this analysis, there is no better candidate than Rafał Trzaskowski. And speaking of reason, I mean a cool assessment of the candidate's qualifications as president.

It was kind of a gag before the first circular that it was a bad luck 13. And they said,

The weakness of the candidates.

This has nothing to do with the unlucky thirteens, but with election ordination and procedure. There is no way that, for example, we will increase the number of essential signatures to 300 or 400 thousand, due to the fact that if individual can afford to buy 2 100 1000 signatures, they will buy even the second so many.

Because this is repeated in all election campaign, I think it is crucial to seriously consider whether it is time to amend the Constitution and enter an article according to which we will elect the president by the National Assembly alternatively than

in a general vote. If that were the case, we would have avoided specified embarrassments as now.

Bronisław Komorowski besides told us about the problem with signatures before the first round. But that shows the problem of the state, lacks basic verification of candidates' CVs.

Yes, but on the another hand, citizens' rights to choose and be chosen are clearly defined. No president was elected erstwhile in interwar Poland

in a general vote, only by the National Assembly. There truly is no more correct recipe that can be introduced.

One could return to this custom, although if we mention president Komorowski here, he is against it. I know due to the fact that I talked to him about it a lot.

What if Charles Nawrocki wins? prof. Antoni Dudek says this is the way to rush elections.

For an accelerated election, most of the parliament must want it. I don't think that's the most likely to develop. I think the script will be different.

I don't think they're gonna find a language with Donald Tuski all of a sudden.

No way. As there was no common language with Andrzej Duda, the more he will not be with Karol Nawrocki. If Nawrocki wins, Kaczyński immediately begins to construct a fresh seismic majority, centered around the Law

and Justice. This is the majority that can be created. She will rapidly elect a fresh Bureau of the Sejm with a fresh talker and will make a motion for a constructive vote of distrust by electing the Prime Minister. The fresh president is very eager to present the nominations to the fresh ministers, and that's it.

It's hard to imagine. After all, the scandals brought out by Nawrock will be fought throughout the term.

Until late many Polish politicians and publicists did not imagine Donald Trump as president of the United States. Now they gotta get utilized to it, so it would be akin with Nawrock. Although, of course, I'd alternatively it never happened.

Do you have another political dream about the left?

I don't have any with that left.

I ask more generally, no names.

I'm done with politics. And the left, and the right. If we are talking about politics at the moment, it is only due to the fact that from time to time as an observer I can say something about it. But I'm not going to get active in anything.

I will repeat this again, that for me the left ended the minute Vladimir Czarzasty destroyed the SLD. And the different people I thought were serious, they let him. If so, I no longer have any wishes on this matter.