Conversation with Lucien Cerise, French philosopher and writer
I know that you are curious in the events that take place in Central Europe due to the fact that you have household ties with the Slavic world. I even think you realize Polish and Russian. Is that true?
– I studied Russian erstwhile I went to school in France, and that was my 3rd language. Often, the first language is English or German, and then Spanish. I took Russian due to the fact that I have a grandpa who was born in the Grodno region or Grodna region, depending on the accent. Today, the city belongs to Belarus, it was previously in the USSR and even earlier in Poland. erstwhile my grandpa was born, Poland was there. During the Cold War I had a household on the another side of the Iron Curtain; any were in Poland and any were in the USSR. any of the household moved to Moscow and any to Wrocław. Grodne and Wrocław are about 600 kilometres, but at the time there were many displacements of the population. My grandfather, who was then in the Red Army with his brother, was taken prisoner by the Germans and transported to France. Looks like the Germans had time to play with their prisoners from the east Front to the West. He ended up at the Reims Air Base; it was French Air Force Base number 112, converted into a prison. After the war ended, his grandpa stayed in France and his brother returned to Poland. That's where the line moved. My grandpa stayed in Reims. He was fine there, he found a wife, had six children, including my mother. It was in the 1970s. My parent and my uncles went to Poland in the 1970s, and then cousins and aunts from Poland and Russia came to us. They visited us in the 1970s and 1980s. Then there was the fall of communism and we could decision more easily. I am inactive in contact with the Polish part of the family, of course erstwhile he was Covid we travelled somewhat less; I saw them last summertime 2019. I was in Poland in 2019, I saw my cousin Magda Ziutka, Bogdan and the full household around Wrocław. Unlike them, I completely lost contact with a household surviving in Russia. Of course, due to the fact that they were inactive geographically – we had little contact with them. This is part of my roots: I am 25% Polish or Belarusian Polish.
We will talk about Euromaidan, but earlier I wanted to ask a question about the fresh edition of the book "Managing through chaos". If I realize correctly, this is simply a kind of directory of social engineering techniques utilized by political authorities to make social changes. Can you explain the concept of social engineering and give concrete examples?
– There are respective definitions of social engineering. The most popular is computer hacking. An American hacker named Kevin Mitnick, who died last year at the age of 60, utilized the concept of social engineering to find his fresh hacking method. That is, he came up with a method of hacking, which active hacking not the machine, but its user. It's a superb idea, but in fact it's just intellectual hacking. It involves hacking the head of the computer user, and then, of course, by transferring skills, it can be utilized to hack anyone. So this definition I'm giving, today, after working on different historical stages. But before hacking computers, the concept of civilian engineering reaches out to utopian writers from the 19th century. This is French, Frédéric le Play, an industrial engineer who invented the concept of social engineer. Le Play created a school and movement in the utopian tradition of August Comte, Henri de Saint Simon, etc. with the thought that a society could be organized scientifically. A 100 years later, this concept was taken over by the hacker community, which means that the definition given by Kevin Mitnick is fundamentally identity theft and abuse of assurance in order to completely restructure the way in which to act. The point is to have a technological way, not a spontaneous way, to approach social bonds. That's why hackers talk about engineering, due to the fact that it's a discipline that tests social connections.
In conclusion, it would be a kind of propaganda, a fresh propaganda, where the positivism of social sciences connects with computer discipline to influence the way people function?
It's 1 of the possible uses. Social engineering, within the meaning of Kevin Mitnick, in the sense of computer hacking, is punishable by law due to the fact that there are applications, but applications for, as I can put it, data hacking. For example, there is simply a known method of “hunting”, called “fishing” in English. It is that the pirate pretends, simulates the banker and writes an email to individual utilizing the logo and signature of the bank, and then asks for login and user password. If the individual who receives specified an email is naive adequate and trusts, due to the fact that he will think that the banker is writing to it due to the fact that he sees a tiny logo of the bank – he will give his individual data. Then a hacker can already enter a person's account without an infraction due to the fact that he has codes. The hacker simply usurps the banker's identity to abuse someone's trust.
But these are bandits' methods.
- Yeah.
“Managing through chaos” assumed that it was the authorities utilizing bandit methods to manage us. But the authorities are the guarantor of the law.
– erstwhile these methods are applied by the authorities, they are renamed. It's called a scam, a secret operation, a intellectual operation. This gives the appearance of the regulation of law or being on the border of legality. All secret services carry out secret operations; peculiar forces conduct secret operations. France is presently conducting secret operations in Ukraine. Like France, the French army, conducted secret operations in Sub-Saharan Africa, the mediate East, Syria. There, French peculiar forces, intelligence services, and mostly Western intelligence services, namely NATO-wski, have been utilizing paramilitary and terrorist networks for decades. That's all we know, there's evidence, there's a historical consensus. They're called Gladio networks. "Stay-behind" cells were mentioned in English. These networks were born of Fascism and Nazism and were utilized by the British and Americans, CIA and MI6, to fight the Soviets erstwhile they tried to go beyond the borders of the Warsaw Pact. And now we have the remains of this in Ukraine, with the celebrated “badders” who are direct continuationrs of Gladio cells, derived from the circles of Nazism or fascism. This is all part of an operation that we call secret operations, alleged border operations, which are frequently completely illegal. This is social engineering. The definition that I specify social engineering present is: it's an influence in a sneaky, secret way to transform a social entity, individual or group. This example of fishing, which I gave as naïve fishing techniques, is simply a criminal practice, but it besides applies geopolitically to the masses. Euromaidan is simply a good example.
Yeah, let's go back to 2017. Then you wrote the book “The Turn to Majdan. NATO Hybrid War". In 2022 it was reissued under the title “Ukraine. NATO Hybrid War". According to you, this conflict we are presently experiencing is the consequence of an Anglo-Saxon social engineering operation against Russia. You deny any spontaneousity of the events of Euromaidan 2014, or even the Orange Revolution that took place in 2004. The question I would like to ask you: you say that the current terrorist and flag groups match NATO stay-behind networks and peculiar services. NATO is fundamentally a defensive military alliance that was created in the Cold War to argue the Warsaw Pact. What you are saying is that NATO is not a defensive alliance, but alternatively offensive, but even manipulative. Can you explain the concept of hybrid war? Give an example and can explain why specified methods are used?
"It should be stressed here that the Warsaw Pact was created after the North Atlantic Alliance was established. In fact, the Warsaw Pact was defensive, not the another way around. If the North Atlantic Alliance were purely defensive, it should have ceased to be in 1991 or 1992, after the dissolution of the USSR. After the Warsaw Pact was dissolved – how did NATO inactive exist? In addition, if you break the acronym, we have the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. I don't see contact points, like between Turkey and the North Atlantic, or between Ukraine and the North Atlantic. There are no geographic contact points. As you can see, NATO is an expansionist organization. It does not satisfy Western countries. Since 2014, he has been trying to annex Ukraine. Integration with NATO is even an nonsubjective in the Constitution of Ukraine. It is clear that the name "Organization of the North Atlantic Treaty" no longer corresponds to today's reality.
But we hear alternatively that Ukraine wants to join NATO, and that Russia prevents it. Not that NATO is trying to annex Ukraine.
"Yes, let's say otherwise: Russia intends to demilitarize Ukraine, which was officially announced on February 24, 2022, due to the fact that militarized Ukraine represents a direct physical threat to Russia.
You claim that NATO manipulated Euromaidan in 2014 and the Orange Revolution in 2004. What evidence is there?
There is an component of spontaneity. Of course, there are Ukrainians who sincerely wanted to join the European Union and NATO. But I have any sources in my book. Incidentally, it is simply a book in which I decipher Euromaidan, utilizing Western and Russian and Ukrainian sources. In this book I play Dmytro Jarosz's program from the Right Sector for the 2014 presidential election, an early election that was held after Viktor Yanukovych escaped. Jarosz clearly said that he wanted not only to remilitarize Ukraine, but besides to nuclearize Ukraine, i.e. to recover the arsenal of atomic warheads. This is an anti-Russian project. Right Sector was and is 1 of the flag organizations.
Lucien Cerise
Why the banders?
– What do you mean?
Why Bandera? Why did Bandera abruptly become Ukrainian national hero?
– That's due to the fact that the flags were incorporated into the NATO Gladio network. Bandera ended his life in Munich. Munich was the center of intellectual warfare. From Munich was broadcast by the celebrated Radio Free Europe, Radio Swoboda. I forgot the full name of the Free Europe radio, but it's a beautiful long name consisting of 2 parts. The radio inactive exists and has a website now. My grandpa listened to him in the 1950s due to the fact that he became an anti-communist. He listened to the news in Polish broadcast from Munich, the radio made anti-communist propaganda. Today, these media, which are entirely financed by the American Congress, the American Parliament, are making anti-Russian propaganda, after they utilized to do anti-communist or flagrant propaganda. I give all the sources in the book. The first edition was in 2017 and then in 2022, after the Russian military operation began, the publisher told me: – listen, it is time for a fresh edition, so I added a fresh introduction and many sources that I collected in 2017-2022, sources that actually prove that, for example, first, Euromaidan did not start on 21 November 2013, but started under a different name in March 2013, with the same leaders and slogans. There was already Oleg Tiagnibok from the Swoboda party, the Nazi party, Arsenij Jaceniuk and Vitali Klickko, who is inactive the mayor of Kiev. We don't truly know what happened to Arsenian Jaceniak, the bank man. As early as March 2013, there was a movement called "Get Up Ukraine", and these 3 people, I just mentioned, organized demonstrations, mainly in the west of Ukraine close Rowny and Lviv to warm the moods. As Talleyrand utilized to say, “you should shake people before utilizing them.” It's like a bottle of Orangina. These activists organize demonstrations to overthrow the government as early as spring 2013. mark has been declared. We can see, we can find sources, images, pictures of these demonstrations that lasted until August 2013. They then stopped, took a break and resumed demonstrations in November 2013, but already centralised in Kiev. They organized bus tours to bring people from the state so that in May there would be as many people as possible in independency Square in the center. We know the demonstrators were paid; there are sources, there are witnesses. Of course, there was an component of spontaneity.
Certainly people who said they wanted a better future and who believed that the European Union was El Dorado. We know that the Western planet is portrayed very frequently as El Dorado, where anything is possible and that if you work a small bit, you can make quite a few money. It's a fantasy that people from east Europe inactive have about Western Europe. We're gonna gotta deconstruct all this due to the fact that it's not true. It may have been true, if any, in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, Western Europe had a period of prosperity, known as Trente Gloriauses, 30 large years. Back then in France, it was very good, but now it's all over and we're all on the brink of civilian war. Now all globalistic problems have arisen; vocalism, etc. But returning to the question – in a book I wrote and published in 2017, I wanted to show and prove that Euromaidan was an operation of social engineering across the country, an operation aimed at transforming the Ukrainian identity itself. And it started with the Orange Revolution, due to the fact that in 2004 and 2005, the operation, how to put it, reeducation of Ukrainians began. Releasing for what? To an open society, that is, surviving with immigration, surviving with diversity. And then there was LGBT. It began in 2014, erstwhile all LGBT laws entered into force in Ukraine. In 2014, they began to be implemented, and even now that the war is on, Zelenski launched a large run to finance sex change to make it easier for Ukrainians. I thought this was a war, and they truly have nothing else to do. But at this point, you can see that the NATO behind all this has gone completely insane. There is besides a combat unit in Ukraine composed of LGBT soldiers. They even have a trade union, they did a photograph exhibition at a museum in Kiev to make any fashion. Now the Pride Parade, “Gay Pride”, is organized in Kiev. In Kharkiv, in 2022, just after the Russian army withdrew, because, if you remember, in 2022 the Russian army approached Kharkiv and yet decided to leave town and concentrate on Donbas. Shortly thereafter, on the following days, after the Russians withdrew, the Kharkiv organized a “sand of pride”. We see that, in another words, today's Western borders, NATO borders, are LGBT borders.
I mean, what's LGBT? Is it a method to draw attention to something else? It's expected to make people lose their orientation. due to the fact that the fact is, during the war, it's not something that should...
– Overall, this is not very effective.
...to be in the foreground.
- That's right, it's a symptom of intellectual illness to me. And that is how I can put it, organised at the organization level by NATO and the European Union. Let me say that I can inactive realize that the European Union is curious in this, it is simply a civilian organisation. But in NATO, in armies, there truly is simply a promotion of LGBT.
If I shorten what the Lord is saying, it seems that those with very powerful weapons are mentally ill.
– Yeah, it's beautiful obvious, but the worst part is, it turns against them. Welcome to capitalism, this is simply a strategy for intellectual illness. I utilized to be left-wing due to the fact that I understood rather quickly, on the example of my family, part of my household surviving in east Europe, that people were happy there. They hated, as it is told in the Hollywood version of communism, as a kind of immense gulag in which all people are in prison uniforms. This is simply a version of primitive anti-communism. You can criticize everything, you can criticize communism, but in the West we had primitive anti-communism. You remember the movie Rocky IV? With a big, bad Russian; that was funny! I had contacts with people who lived in Poland or the USSR. They didn't seem to suffer, they were normal. They were like the French in the 1950s.
There are quite a few young people in the French government. He has just been appointed fresh Prime Minister, Gabriel Attal (in a photograph with Olaf Scholz), who is 34 years old.
– Yes, and then everyone is involved, in this kind of global dominant ideology. Now a duel is expected for the presidency between Attal and Jordan Bardella of the National Unity, and he is even younger than Gabriel Attal. He is 30 years old and not even 28 years old. They're kids to me, I'm 20 years older than them, I can't take them seriously. Even Macron came to power at 40. And people like that are all over the world. It's a phenomenon of dominant ideology. Even conservative sovereign parties in France are forced to give a youthful and affirmative image. The image of wisdom; an old bearded man – it no longer works. In the West it is considered archaic, and in France it has been since the 1960s. We had a colorful revolution in May 1968. The goal was to overthrow de Gaulle, it was to kill “father” through the revolution of young people, students.
You think there's a deliberate strategy to deconstruct symbolic ideas?
- Yeah. There is the explanation of the authoritarian personality of Theodore Adorno. Adorno is Frankfurt School, which since the 1950s, 1960s has just worked a lot to deconstruct authoritarian personality as a psycho-social perfect type. He considered this perfect kind to be liable for planet War II and for communism due to the fact that communism was a leftist but authoritarian movement. present he is frequently considered right-wing. There's a reversal.
But this force of deconstruction is, we deconstruct so sharply that the reconstruction may besides surprise the authorities, who yet cut off from the branch on which they sit.
– Today, authority passes the IT sphere. Society is robotic. In the West, what Bourdieu called symbolic dominance inactive exists. With the difference that it is no longer symbolic dominance, it is digital dominance. All these digital passes projects we've been dealing with in a period of covidism. But it was just a test, it was just an experiment.
Alexandra Kluknik-Schaller spoke
photo of wikipedia
Dr. Lucien Cerise (born 1972) is simply a French philosopher and humanist. Author of a number of books devoted, among others, to globalisation, colorful revolutions and social engineering.
Think Poland, No. 7-8 (11-18.02.2024)
