Conversation with prof. Alexander Dugin, Russian thinker, philosopher and geopoliticist. On 20 August 2022, Ukrainian services committed a terrorist attack at Moscow, in which his daughter, Daria Dugin, died. The Polish thought Publishing home published its book in Polish Manifesto of the large Awakening and Writings of War Time, available in our store.
Suicide
Good morning, Mr. Alexander. Thank you for uncovering the time and agreeing to another interview. To begin with, I would like to ask a general question relating to peculiar Military Operations and what is presently happening. No uncertainty you are 1 of those who suffered the most from the current conflict. I mean your daughter's death, a unique tragedy. Thousands of soldiers and civilians besides suffered. I very frequently wonder how much Russia could have utilized another means in 2022, or possibly earlier. Measures that, let's say, any American politicians call soft force. Given that from a civilizational point of view – as we see here ourselves, looking at alleged refugees, emigrants from Ukraine – Ukraine was and is inactive an integral part of the Russian World. Did you think there was another way out?
– You know, theoretically it was, of course it was. But the problem is that this war is so cruel and bloody, due to the fact that it is at the same time in 2 directions. This is not only Russia's clash with Ukraine and more – with the collective West, but besides Russia's clash with itself. This is simply a confrontation with this direction of historical and political improvement in which the country began to follow since the late 1980s. Russia, the russian Union can be compared to a giant ship or a large train. At any point, it was decided to go in the incorrect direction, into the abyss. present it is obvious. present everyone sees it in Russia. At least everyone understands there's been a immense mistake. And even the words of our fresh defence minister, Andrei Belousov, that you can be wrong, but you must not lie – this is just a description of the last 30 or 35 years. That means we made a mistake and started lying. We did the incorrect thing. The ship sailed in the incorrect direction, the crossovers were moved wrong. What was wrong? The fact that Russia's integration into the Western planet would mean its destruction. I'm certain she wouldn't have flourished, that was not an option. By doing this maneuver and going into this corner, the Chinese managed to exit it. But it only happened due to the fact that Russia took on all the negative consequences.
If China had to deal with the West, the second would have tried to destruct it completely. With liberalisation, democratisation would be carried out, and this in turn would lead to a rebellion of provinces specified as Xinjiang, Tibet, South China and interior regions, as well as social conflicts. The West would destruct China; it would do so, although it would not be that simple. However, as all the attention was concentrated in the spirit of classical geopolitics on Russia, China managed to defend their interests. It was impossible for us. Under these circumstances, we had a choice: either annihilation or defending our geopolitical independence. The deficiency of cognition of geopolitics laws by the people behind the rudders of this large ship led to the incorrect course. A course that led to the abyss, leading consecutive to the reefs. They reached the station at the bottom. In the case of specified a immense mechanics as Russia could not have done well. Imagine a speeding car driving into a forest on a forest road. It is apparent that it will break down; the wheels will fall off, the springs will fall apart, the roof will fall down, the brakes will break, the cooling fluid will leak. And that's what happened. The dissolution of the russian Union is specified an accident in a turn. And it was a turn in the incorrect direction. We were speeding at large speed, turning to the incorrect road, picking the incorrect river stream, and moving into the waterfall. Shocks started. And then it couldn't be stopped.
At any point – the effects are inactive felt present – we are on the incorrect way of integration with the West. We're on a suicide path. It's just a situation where people decided to end themselves, destruct the country, destruct themselves, and disappear, dissolving themselves in this unspecified global network. By the way, that's what we're fighting. Ukraine is part of this, part of suicide. We stepped on a suicide way and went after her. Body parts, arms, legs, eyes, ears, lungs, liver began to fall off. It all started falling off and being scattered on this road. We started falling apart. This war from 2022 to 2024 is so cruel, tragic, ruthless, without rules, terrible and so painful precisely due to the fact that it is essential to have this almost completely destroyed trailer that has driven into the forest from its average historical path, someway restoring to the right path. reconstruct the ship to the right hals, step back and rearrange the crossovers, or someway put fresh rail foundations on the right path. The cost of this is huge. We started a war completely unprepared for it. But if we had not begun it, we would not have prepared ourselves better, but yet we would have broken up. In fact, Putin stopped her as much as he could with those resources that were available. But generally, Russia could not not have gone westward on the rule of inertia. We joined their organizations, adopted their criteria, gave all our discipline and education to external factors.
In fact, we continued to commit suicide. Although Putin stopped and froze the most vicious forms of suicide, for example, the distribution of national regions, which had already gone full steam. Remember the first Chechen campaign. Putin made all effort to preserve the unity of the federation. He fought for it for 24 years. He maneuvered the rudder of this crazy, drunken ship, a drunken cruiser who was in the mediate of a real storm. He set it to the right hals. In this situation, it is not possible to talk about a appropriate or incorrect solution to the Ukrainian problem, a reasonable or unreasonable interaction with the West. This was an extraordinary, destructive situation. Evil, betrayal and hostility towards our nation and our state came not only from the outside, but besides from the inside. This is very crucial – an elite formed in the late 1980s. And in 1990, it was rusophobic. We created anti-Russia and continued to build it. We perceive anti-Russia in Ukraine, but anti-Russia is besides ourselves. We were anti-Russia, we were just like Ukraine present and so we are fighting not Ukraine, but ourselves. Theoretically, if we imagined that there would be no interior resistance, this furious passiveness of pro-Western, liberal, globalist and totally treacherous elites that took over full power in the late 1980s and 1990s; if they did not show opposition to all steps, actions, points – then I think we would have adequate soft force to deal with the situation in Ukraine in a different way. due to the fact that I think by 2014, half of Ukraine's population was usually on our side.
It's not like that now. We didn't take that moment, that opportunity. What is more, I think that in the 1990s, regardless of the West's infatuation, we could have been successful together with Ukraine to any degree towards the liberalisation of certain aspects of life, and everyone would have been rather satisfied. However, we had completely irrational behaviours of these Russian Komrador elites, I stress – Russian, due to the fact that it is the Russian elite that is liable for what is happening. Putin, on the another hand, tried to put it back in time and avoid this conflict. He joined him only after he had become inevitable. And it became inevitable erstwhile we could no longer sit on 2 rolling stock at erstwhile – strive for the West and preserve our sovereignty. Putin is simply a committed supporter of sovereignty, but until 1 point he was besides a firm supporter of the West. Imagine this: trap-realist, so to speak, which says Russia is first, Russia is great, but at the same time the West is our goal, the only civilization we are part of, but we want to be a sovereign part of this Western world. And that's impossible, just impossible. Gradually, life proved impossible. And that's why we started this peculiar Military Operations with no peculiar enthusiasm; we actually wanted to not start it as long as possible. But we could not avoid it. How we prepared for it is simply a separate issue. Initially it seemed very good – in the first fewer hours we took over half of Ukraine. Apparently, however, we were hoping for something that did not happen – and that besides tells us a lot about our uneasyness to this conflict.
Then began this terrible slaughterhouse, which takes our best people, our children, and which, of course, even shortened to a head, made Ukraine empty so that no 1 was left there. The number of war victims is, of course, hidden by both sides. But it is huge. From what we see, and there, and here – we have already spilled immense seas of blood. And they're all people that we love, and it's not a trifle. We're talking about blood, and that's our blood. erstwhile we realize this, things are different, the price becomes very high, even unbelievable. But it's the payment for our madness, for our relinquishing our mission. Thus God imposes a fine and a punishment on Russia due to the fact that it has strayed from its intended path. This way is, of course, the function of the defender of conventional civilization in the face of the dying, rotting Western world. This was said by the Slavic philosophers, the Eurasians, even the Communists, who in a peculiar way never admitted it, but this furious opposition of our socialist russian society to Western capitalism was besides part of the continuation of our mission to defend sovereignty and our separate civilization. This is why the level of cruelty and tragedy of present events, the present war, is straight linked to the level of spiritual blackout of our ruling elite. We're on this road and we're paying a immense price for it. We have now yet begun to regain control of the rudders, to return to the right path, but we are far from the road, from our tracks leading to the future. We've already turned into a dead end, pulled over, we're in the woods. The another thing is to ride a paved, God-destined and past railway, and another situation in which we have strayed from it, we are lost, and now we gotta slide down from above on the carriage. We request to push it to the top first like Sisyphus, and this requires a tremendous effort.
Avoid hatred and Dehumanization
As far as Ukrainians are concerned, as you can imagine, I observe quite a few those who are here in Poland. erstwhile talking to them, I draw my attention to 1 thing: if they are actually following any nationalist views, they are doing so in a very shallow, actually artificial way. any of them even realize it. Of course, they make the impression that they are nationalists – not anti-Polish, due to the fact that they are located in Poland, but only anti-Russian, that they are part of this anti-Russia. However, if we talk, in peculiar to the young Ukrainians who are here – there is an impression that conventional values are much closer to them than to Polish society, and surely to Western society. How much do you think the collective West and, say, the anti-Russia task managed to transform Ukrainian awareness? Will restoring them to the right path, the way of the Russian World, be easy?
– That's an crucial question. You know, it's not truly up to them. In this case, it turns out that in reality they are passive, they are subject. The question is whether we can reconstruct our society to the conventional way, due to the fact that we ourselves are no longer carriers of the actual Russian Idea, but a product of very complex experiments in the field of social engineering. We are an obsessed society, a Russian society has overtaken the obsession associated with the century of dominance of completely anti-Russian paradigms. That's why we're besides influenced by the West. Our consciousness and our souls are broken. Our values have broken down, broken down. We forgot the basis of our culture and identity. Although of course we have forgotten them to a lesser degree than the Ukrainians, while Ukrainians to a lesser degree than Poles, Poles and Hungarians to a lesser degree than Western Europeans, and Western Europeans to a lesser degree than Americans, especially globalists. Although possibly we are just crossing a line, and it is possible that in any respects American society is more conventional than European society, although it is an open issue. Anyway, the process of moving Western civilization towards dusk is reflected in its degree of sinking into the culture of ultraliberalism, individualism, postmodernity, empiricism, nominalism, materialism, which is of course much greater in the West than in the East. And this can be seen as you say, for example, by talking to refugees or another people.
However, our society has not yet crossed this line, only now it is crossing the line of returning to itself. And that depends on how we deal with Ukraine. If we had returned to ourselves earlier, we might have avoided an acute phase of conflict. Ukrainian nationalism could find its place in the empire, but Russia would should be specified an empire. Many Ukrainian nationalists – for which they tried to criticize me with us – sought specified a way in 1990 and 2000. They had one. Self - control direction, Alone identity, but they were ready to take the place of specified a conventional Cossack. Yes, not entirely loyal, always dissatisfied, but this was part of the historical sequence. That's what happened. People surviving on the border always, possibly not always, but very often, go from 1 identity to another. Who precisely are the Ukrainians? It's a mix of Orthodox Christians and Cossacks. And the Cossacks truly knew about the Polish nobility in many matters, they wanted to imitate it. I think that is why they were jumping on Majdan – they wanted to become Poles. They felt incomplete Poles and tried to jump to Poles. Over the centuries Poles were in the eyes of this Western-Russian Cossack lords, landowners, elites. It was. Unlike Russian court offices, which accounted for 0.4% of the population, the nobles represented almost 40% in the Polish society at any time. Combat and aristocracy in general was a minimal percentage. But these are yet 2 types of civilization – Western Slavic and Eastern. And specified Orthodox peasants under the leadership of specified Selfish Cossacks – who besides despised peasants in the margins and considered them a layer lower – chose between Poland and possibly any councils of the Sultan or proposals of the Russian white Tsar.
This rotational awareness of the chaotic Fields, to a large degree anarchist, has shaped a large part of the Malurus. This does not apply to Novorusins. Noworusini is already a mixed population, consisting of the Malurusins and the Greater Russians. But we already know that. This complex composition of Ukraine does not let us to talk of them as completely our people. We Greatrusini, we are Eastern, we have different, possibly more reaching Ords, Eurasian roots; they, Ukrainians, are lighter, more fancy, cheerful, and at the same time more stubborn. Their society has a somewhat different structure. Of course, if we had proclaimed ourselves an empire and declared the unity of the 3 east Slavs' roots, attaching greater importance to the identity of the Malurus and the Belarusians, not measuring them, but saying that you are specified and we are specified – the Belarusians are such, the Belarusians are local; The Malorosians have specified peculiar features, and we, the Greater Rusini, have our affirmative and negative qualities, but we are all east Slavs, we all come from Rusi Kiev – our matrix... If we put it all that way, and we're done with it. traps and liberals at home, this tide of Ukrainian patriotism could take a different direction from this contaminated, instrumental – completely different, healthy, intra-imperial.
From time to time, this inactive happens. Now, in terms of this brutal fight, erstwhile we start to truly hatred each other, due to the fact that both sides have something to do with it. I don't want to decide who's right and who's guilty. I don't know how much longer we'll be able to defy this hatred. The Ukrainians have given this hatred a green light, and we hold back, though it begins to appear. With each day of war, loss, death of loved ones, cruelty, terror, fire of civilians in cities, we have a increasing level of hatred of the Malurus. I can't deny it, though we inactive find strength, any space, so we don't halt being their brothers. We inactive consider them brothers. It is becoming more hard for us, but we proceed to consider them as brothers, which means that we hold the anticipation of reshaping their relation at the next stage. The sooner we win, the more determined and serious our triumph is, the milder and better we will be. That's what I wanted to stress. We're inactive gentle, we're at peace, we're at peace, we're at peace. We'll fight on our own. Ukraine is completely without pity with extreme, rusophobic nationalism, Nazism and pro-Western option, but we inactive leave ourselves the anticipation of understanding, very human treatment of Ukrainian identity.
We will inactive gotta fight for this, especially with SOW veterans, who – you realize how they begin to treat the enemy in the situation of the second year of dehumanization. They started with this dehumanization. MoscowAnd we're only now approaching that line and we haven't crossed it yet. God forbid we cross it. In order not to fall victim to genuine hatred, we request victory, triumph most unequivocally. In fact, no 1 has always seen a Russian possessed by real hatred. However, the Russians can become such. all hit by the Himars in the Belarusian children, women and civilian objects brings closer the arrival of this terrible breakthrough, which, in my opinion, we should avoid, and it is important. This breakthrough wouldn't have worked. This is simply a breakthrough in the dehumanization of the enemy in our eyes. It's a terrible thing. It's apparent that we're not human to them anymore, but they're inactive human to us, they're inactive brothers. I think that in any time – present I can say something like this – in any time they will not let me say something like this, even to a foreign, Polish journalist, or they will haunt me for something like this.
I believe – not only me – that we can inactive save the soul of the Ukrainian people, the Malurus, but possibly besides our own soul. This may be the case if we scope triumph without dehumanizing the opponent. Otherwise, I don't know what awaits the Ukrainians. I hope we do not cross this border, due to the fact that we did not even cross it, regardless of the cruelty of Nazism, towards the Germans. Despite the celebrated phrase Konstantin Simonov “Whenever you meet him, kill him.”We haven't stopped treating Germans like people. May God aid us to have good and light adequate in our hearts, so that we do not have specified emotions; that we realize that we are dealing with our foolish brothers, with people who have strayed. Now, as Belousov said, we will halt fooling ourselves, we will admit mistakes, including omission errors, which have not led to a mild and long-term solution to the fundamental Ukrainian issue. Well, we'll see. The West is just about to get us out of balance first, make our reaction not to the West itself, but to Ukraine; then to keep this bloody way in the form of a scar for centuries. God forbid we fall into this trap prepared by the West. In a sense, it would be better to strike the West itself than to lead to specified a form of hatred towards our fellow nation, towards the Ukrainians.
Brzeziński – Atlantist, not Pole
If I am correct, in 2005 you discussed in general the Ukrainian issue, its geopolitical significance, with Zbigniew Brzeziński, known in Poland. I have a question about this: at the time of this conversation with Brzeziński, did you get the impression that in any way he identified with Polish national identity, did you announcement any features typical of Poles?
– There is specified a general view, conventional widgetthat Brzeziński was a rusophobe due to the fact that he was a Pole. I've always been categorically opposed to this. possibly there were any hostile Polish emotions towards Russia, but in fact his ideology was pure atlantism. This means that it was based on the ideas of the Anglo-Saxons – Mackinder, Spykman. In talking to him, I felt no hatred of us. By the way, I believe that Poles are 1 of those fewer nations that have grounds to dislike us. And that's a very serious basis. due to the fact that we were equal, we competed like 2 brothers, we competed very hard. Like princes, children of the same father fighting each other. And almost the full past of Europe, the past of Russia is the bloody hatred of people close to each other. I think in a sense there is no 1 closer to each another than us and Poles. However, we are 2 large Slavic nations, the strongest and most powerful, who historically chose different paths – Eastern-Christian and Western-Christian. We were the work of Our Lady, and you considered yourselves the Christ of Europe standing in the way of our Orthodox, supposedly Asian wave. They're 2 different identities.
We fought. At any point you beat us. You were immense erstwhile we were the small Grand Duchy of Moscow. You were a real Polish-Lithuanian empire from sea to sea. We had common enemies – Teutons. There was besides a chance to unite in the Polish crown, in Catholicism. There were besides opportunities to unite under the Moscow crown and Orthodoxy. Later you were in the composition of the Russian Empire, but before that we had different stages. And at any point this proud, Polish, noble, Sarmatian consciousness found itself in a situation where she completely lost the historical conflict with her east Russian brother. And how could a Pole truly accept that? I don't think that's possible. I may not support it, but I realize that this is causing anger. That's understandable. Let's stand up... Incidentally, I like Polish culture very much. I realize Poles. The Ukrainians are different. They have no reason to hatred us. In fact, they copy either Eurasianism, specified Turkish Eurasianism; or noble russophobia. Even their hatred is borrowed. Everything's a loan. They have nothing. erstwhile they effort to make something of their own, it comes out of any pathetic nonsense. Poles have grounds. You have a history, you have Catholicism, you have a very different identity, which you choose to defend and not give up. Even in Grandpa Mickiewicz, full of russophobia and actual romanticism, hatred for us is besides true.
Of course, it's hard to be attracted to it, you should be a masochist, but you can realize it. Ukrainians have no reason for this hatred. They take your hatred and direct it against us. This is simply a pathological situation. As for Brzeziński, – I want to say again – I did not see anything Polish in him. I saw individual clearly Anglo-Saxon, like a machine. due to the fact that I know this machine, we spoke to it in the same clear geopolitical language. We had an excellent discussion and gave me his book with dedication and a request that I change my views to completely opposite. That's how a device can think. He didn't see me as a Russian, either, but as any misunderstanding man trying to play chess with a master. He seemed to tell me to survey better with him, become his student, and see how I could learn to play. It completely negated our identity and subjectivity. That's what all Anglo-Saxons do. possibly it is the Poles who realize more that the Russian is serious. In fact, Brzeziński besides understood that the Russian was serious. However, in fact, he constructed a mechanical strategy of specified anti-Russian policy and did so not due to the fact that he hated Russians, but due to the fact that this is the logic of geopolitical development, the behaviour of the civilization of the Sea. erstwhile the civilization of the Sea took control of us, it took us into captivity erstwhile we became weak – we fell into a state of blackout, in which we made these mistakes that Belousov was just talking about, usually in the planet we gave up our country and a geopolitical disaster occurred.
Of course, the West could not refuse to usage our defeat, our blackout, our betrayal, our suicide. He took advantage of the occasion and Brzeziński was well aware that Ukraine is the key to all this; that if the West manages to integrate full with each another Ukraine, it means the end of Russia. due to the fact that it is via Ukraine that the West is approaching the deepest Russia, not only in a territorial but besides intellectual and historical sense. So if we win in authentically and completely separating Ukraine from Russia, Russia will never be an empire again, it will no longer be a pole of the multipolar planet and the dusk of Eurasia will occur. This is what Mackinder said erstwhile he was Commissioner of Ententa in West-Russian areas. So this is pure science, a survey of geopolitics projected from the West to the East. I task this teaching from the East to the West from my point of view, which became the basis of our geopolitical school and then the basis of Russian politics. erstwhile I was at Brzeziński in Washington in 2005, I had a speech at the Hopkins Institute and was introduced to by prof. Frederick Starr, an American geopolitician, most likely a peculiar services associate, saying, "See how much Dugin's texts have in common (that was 2005!) with Putin's actions". “There must be something behind it, due to the fact that I don’t know – as he said, a sovetologist – not 1 Russian political scientist whose words would work, but not post factum, and before the events concerned.’ And now, there is no way to identify these similarities. My analyses, which many seemed extravagant, to many were any marginal rematch fantasies, have now simply become the basis of the contemporary policy direction. The things for which I was persecuted, and so far they have been trying to harass me, have become a state policy. But that's not the least of my credit. It's important.
That's just logic. Regardless of who I was – Tatar or Pole born in Russia, Orthodox from an Orthodox family, whoever. Following the way of my people and my country, studying globally, disciplines specified as planet politics, geopolitics, economics, sociology, past – I would come to the conclusions that I have come to. Our country and our nation besides came to them, uncovering Russia after a period of wandering the desert. It's an nonsubjective matter. An nonsubjective way that could be slowed down, about which 1 could lie – as Belousov says – but it could not truly be avoided. present in our society there has already been a consensus about this policy, akin to the consensus among the globalist Atlantic elites, whose typical was Brzeziński. There were others in Poland. There was a current – I know not very influential – of specified an orientation to the East. Different thinkers represented him. It was not necessarily purely Orthodox, but was based on Catholicism, the Polish identity remaining in alliance with a more conventional Russian society, on the defence of conventional values. There were concepts. Although – as you know perfectly well – most of the Polish society is, of course, oriented towards the West. However, it is now advanced time to ask ourselves, are we targeted at this kind of West? due to the fact that Polish society was oriented towards the West completely different. After all, Polish pride was associated with the defence of conventional Catholic values. Hostility towards the russian Union besides had in the background religion, with priests, that is, Polish traditionalism.
And present we see that Russia is the protector of conventional values, and the West is the origin of gay parades and degeneration. Are you certain this is the kind of Europe you want, you Poles, and you want to be her shield? A shield against who? Before a healthy family, the fidelity of tradition, hierarchy, honor and valor, which becomes increasingly a symbol of maintaining conventional values of Russia? little and little in the West. In the West, it is already a crime. So possibly now there will be what the Polish genius Hoene-Wroński proposed – specified a breakthrough in Polish consciousness in which Polish traditionalism with large effort will prevail. And then there'll be a full different conversation. We can start this dialog on a dignified basis right now. Actually, that's an example. True, the case of Ficy shows what can happen erstwhile individual gets out of control of the globalists. But in Hungary, there is simply a surviving and healthy Orbán. Poland is simply a country very closely sociologically and historically. Although they are not a Slavic country, but a Catholic, east European country, with a immense amount of specified typically east European depressing tendencies completely logically contrary to the way of Western civilization.
These are chaotic nations from Western standards. Incidentally, the French as savages – specified chaotic and dionysian romantics – were besides considered by the Germans, but Poles and Hungarians are surely unconscionable, irrational and emotional. They're kind of like east Europe full of mouths. And Orbán goes that way. If only we could overcome russophobia by coming out of a fresh reality between us... I don't even get over it, but it's a small limited. To go to specified controlled russophobia from chaotic rusophobia, all sending. Do not forget to resent those who did so with Poland in the 18th century, especially in the 19th century, but look a small further, more broadly. possibly we could find some... I'm talking about it carefully, due to the fact that most likely in Russia, frankly, I'm the only 1 representing that point of view. Among the Russian patriots I know, no 1 is fond of Poland, and I am. I'm not ashamed of it, due to the fact that I just realize the another very well. I realize those rather different from us, and those not entirely different, and surely Slavs. For me, the Slavs – even those who so irritated Konstantin Leontev and our eurasians and who are not besides attractive from the point of view of specified Russian logic – are very close. someway I realize them internally, even if our ways are radically dispersing.
Platform for dialogue
Mr. Alexander, if you don't mind, the last question. After the release of your last book, although besides earlier, you are the most celebrated contemporary Russian philosopher in our country, as in another countries. In these countries you are, of course, demonized, and your books are banned. Either way, do you think your 4th political theory, your geopolitical work, yours? Noomachia can become specified a forum, a platform of contacts of traditionalists representing different civilizations, including those from the collective West, besides from Poland and Central Europe? How real is that? How much is specified a dialog possible? Of course, contrary to all the obstacles that are now artificially created.
– You know, it's interesting, but if the dialog between Russian civilization and the West is even possible, then it is possible through me. Of course, not personally through me, but on the basis of my developed concepts. Concepts of empire, traditionalism, identity system, conservative values. Why? We'll look at alternatives. What else could the model or the road to dialog between Russia and the West look like? Like liberalism. But then, as we see, the West completely ignores any difference from it. So it would be a monologue from the West. We would be proposed to change our point of view to the diametrically opposite, and our point of view would be considered as a stranger. There was a church, church and Slavic concept: as a stranger. Organisation as an extraordinary It's a message that something never existed. So there was something, and it's believed that what was actually there didn't exist.
To the West, we are like this. other. They ban books they don't like. They kill people who act against them or kill their loved ones. They are so liquidating another and dialog with the West can only take place in accordance with specified a model. Either you praise them or they kill you. Putin and part of our political class have realized that you are either behind the West, or they will kill you, just physically destruct you, like the Dasha or another social activists, journalists. They'll kill you. You don't like something – they'll take you out. erstwhile they came to realize this, our uprising against the West began. This is not dialogue, this is impossible. So the liberal platform for dialog does not exist. The second platform is nationalism. Russian nationalism, which rages against the West and fights against it. Eventually, however, the level of anger will be that Russian nationalists will not talk to any West. Not at all. They will do as the West does to us. They'll deny him humanity. His civilization is considered devilish, and it's close. As a consequence of physical suffering, loss, these unbearable torments through which we pass the West will cease to be treated as an entity. And then we will not only be ready to usage atomic weapons, but we will search an argument to annihilate this abomination. As a result, we will negate the West, as the West tries to negate us. It's a real danger. So neither liberalism nor nationalism creates any basis for dialogue.
Meanwhile, the 4th political theory, Noomachia, the explanation of the multipolar world, or ideas I'm working on, these basics form. According to them, Russia does not claim to replace the West in its global mission. All we're saying is that they leave our civilization alone, and we will admit your right to form another civilization, another civilizations. So on that basis... However, we cannot discuss this with the Liberals. Liberals don't want to hear about it. We can, on the another hand, come to any constructive conclusions on the basis of these ideas and concepts, their improvement and proposals to read them ourselves, with those who agree that there is simply a certain Western culture, Western civilization, Western identity, Western tradition. Based on these ideas, we have already come to a serious alliance with China, the muslim planet and India. My concepts work large there. any fight them there too; local fundamentalists and globalists.
So are nationalists and liberals everywhere against the 4th political theory, Eurasianism and against me. You cannot imagine this, but my books are banned not only in the West, in America, but there is besides a terrible run against me in China, among Chinese nationalists and liberals. I late launched my social media there and have a immense number of supporters and opponents. all civilization has its liberals. They are of large importance today. And there are nationalists. They're all against the platform that I embody. besides in India, besides in the muslim world, Latin America. However, there are besides those who, let us say, realize the importance of the principles that I have presented in my work. If not for this, they would not be banned in global networks, and so in all civilization they would not do so automatically, with the support of liberals and local nationalists and fundamentalists. I don't know any another specified banned authors.
I have a friend in Italy, an utmost right-wing publisher. erstwhile he tries to sale my books through Amazon, they tell him it's fascism. I asked him if he had any problems selling Hitler, Mussolini, Goebbels, for example. He said he had no problem with it. That means I'm not a fascist. Besides, I give fascism criticism in all my works. I wrote thousands of pages with criticism of Fascism. But that doesn't mean anything. It turns out that my books prohibit fascism from being present, and meanwhile, real, real fascism as such... It turns out there are plenty of modern fascists. No prohibitions apply to their books, their works – both fascism classics and modern fascists. You realize this isn't about fascism. In fact, 4th political theory, multipolar planet theory, eurasianism, Noomachia, a civilizational approach and akin issues that I consistently address. These are the ones that turn out to be unacceptable to the West. due to the fact that they destruct the foundations of worldview and ideological, the only power. These ideas undermine the roots of western hegemony, its cognitive, epistemological and philosophical core, its metaphysics. And they do it in a way completely different from what the old anti-liberal theories of fascism and communism did.
Going beyond fascism and communism, saying goodbye and parting with them, breaking all relationships with them, they go to criticism not of liberalism of the past, which has already defeated all its opponents, but liberalism of the future in which uncertainty inactive exists, the flickering indetermination of the polar star of the 4th political theory. I think that on this basis the advanced intellectual elite of the West of all current – erstwhile liberals, erstwhile nationalists, erstwhile communists or erstwhile Marxists – can successfully scope the 4th political theory. It is so indeed a platform for a completely different approach. This approach is based on the multiplicity of civilization, on the designation of the another as neither inferior nor equal. It's a simple formula: neither worse, nor equal. And this is where the closure of the Western man begins. What do you mean, not worse or equal? How? The affirmative designation of the another is simply a philosophical, anthropological action that is abroad to Western, linear, very rigid consciousness. Just strangers. And it's not abroad to a Russian. This is why the Russian protects even the nations in his sphere of influence, and the West absolutely destroys them. He first treats them as lower class peoples and then annihilates them. They're 2 different types of thinking. 1 of them assumes a affirmative image of the Other, his affirmative reception. In general, the most crucial message of all my works is that we must treat the another positively. We should treat others favorably, but we should besides feel positive. We're not the West, and so what? That's great. This does not mean that we must immediately become like us; nor that we must be changed to become the West. We are not the West, and that is good, but we are not Islam, Hinduism, China, Africans... Incidentally, we are the east Slavs and the another Western Slavs; we are the Slavs and others – Celts and Germans. We are Christians, they are Muslims.
This rule of the affirmative another can be applied everywhere. It's a general rule. But the West hates it. The West has the other in it, which completely excludes the concept of the affirmative Other. But all you gotta do is accept them and that's all. This is an advanced platform for further dialogue. NoomachiaThe 24 volumes you mentioned are devoted to different civilizations. I've talked about it a lot, but it's important. all time I wrote another volume, I went deeper into a given culture and did not look at it like a Russian. That's even actual for the American people. I went deeper into it and lived, thought and wrote like an American. That's why I didn't make any grades. Of course, later, after writing, closing and folding to the publishing house, I returned to my relation with her. However, erstwhile studying a culture, you gotta take her side. You gotta get inside it. As shortly as you start considering it from a Russian point of view, from an Orthodox point of view, or from an Indo-European or Slavic point of view, you begin to condemn it and treat it ironically.
The full west... Most Western literature devoted to Russian civilization is simply a complete failure. It's not just that it's my opinion. It's like saying twice twice is fifteen. It's not an idea; it's just two. The West should be given 2 for deficiency of ability to receive the another positively. We request to learn about learning another civilization of this affirmative reception of the Other. In fact, it is nothing but the usage of cultural anthropology in the American edition of Franz Boas. It's an American school that the Americans themselves don't usage at all. I don't know how that happened. I'm certain they're studying at Franz Boas and his full cultural personality school. There were excellent authors in it who went deeper into different civilizations and explored them in an highly brilliant, deeper way. erstwhile it comes to politics, Americans forget cultural anthropology and control to hard colonial language. Even their anthropology becomes hegemonic. It's one-pole. There is simply a modern Western liberal man in it and only he is simply a human being.
And that's it. All the others are his approximate copies. The remainder are specified pitekanthropists, Neanderthals, who stand aside from the modern liberal West LGBT. And it's a shame they haven't adopted specified or another gay matrimony laws so far. This is what appears to be shameful, as proof of their delay. It is in this racist way that the West perceives the anthropology of modern man. I see it in Noomachia It's completely different. I see many peoples, many cultures. If the West thinks in its own way, it is his right. Amazonian Indians are incapable to read in a different way and think they are the center of the world. Both should be respected. And mad Western globalists located in 1 room, and Amazon Indians – in the another room, and Poles in the third, and Ukrainians in the fourth. If we are going to describe these anthropological types, we request to dig into them. Otherwise, we won't understand. From the outside, we may think that they are either similar, or we will describe them on the basis of formal features. erstwhile I moved on to Africa, I thought it would be easy to have a certain mythology there. In the meantime, I discovered there, above all, a immense diversity of cultures within each tribe, even within 1 language group. I came across a variety that almost didn't drive me crazy and writing this volume turned out to be the hardest. This full universe. It's like studying not only Greece, but besides Rome, the Semitic world, the Hittites, the Sumerians, the Hurites.
This all means that the African tribes are different from the ancient civilizations and the Egyptian civilization. There's no way to find any common denominators. It's impossible to simplify. For example, in 1 community alone, there is an highly complicated theology. I no longer mention the Dogons and their myths associated with Sirius, with 50-year cycles, with their computational figures. It's hard to imagine. And next to them, there is simply a civilization of mangrove forests, which fundamentally does not separate between gods, spirits, demons and the dead. It's very simple. And what do they have in common? It feels like it's just 2 different planets. erstwhile you travel even in West Africa, you meet in 1 place a kind of a separate planet, and erstwhile you cross the savanna you will be on a completely different planet. And all of this was cut by colonial boundaries in a completely arbitrary way, without taking into account any cultural, ethnic, spiritual factors. Africa is simply a planet to be revealed to us. Deepening in Africa, you begin to realize how diverse and diverse this affirmative another is. Incidentally, I tried to do all this very thoroughly, so in the chapter about Poland I went into Polish longing, Polish specificity, Polish depression, Polish ambitions and Polish pride. All of this became part of my existential experience.
I can't relate exclusively to them. Of course, if we meet on the battlefield, we'll gotta fight what to do. Although I personally would like specified a small utopian concept of a traditionalist alliance with Poles. I think it's possible. fewer people support me on this substance from both ours and yours. But there are exceptions among people. It may be genuinely paradoxical, but now in the West, most of my declared supporters are Poles. Among them are Poles who grew up in the United States, any in England, Poles from Poland itself. Most, however, most likely not from Poland, but from among Poles scattered around the world. They have Polish names, they have Polish names. It is actual that they seldom say that they are Poles. possibly they forget about it in England, America or Amsterdam. I don't know, possibly it's a pattern. possibly these people realize that there is truly no polonaphobia in me. She's not in me at all. Many of my countrymen have it, and I have it. It's more of a sympathy thing. I even fishy I have the blood of any degraded noble who turned into a Ukrainian after he lost his position and his memory. I may have something like that in my genes, due to the fact that something someway ties me to Poland. Of course, I love all Slavs very much, but especially Poles. Something about Poles is simply a bit pathological. Like Witkiewicz. erstwhile my friend Jean Parvulesco gave me the book Witkiewicz Insaturation. And so she shocked me... It's kind of national absurd. The rambling of the Polish society, which is not ours, but very addictive, no substance how terrible it is. My favourite poet is Bolesław Leśmian. I read it in Polish, I have collections of his poems.
Let us point out that he was Jewish. But he is actually 1 of the most talented Polish poets.
– Like our Mandelsztam, which is more Russian than any Russian poet. I like him a lot, too. Sometimes Jews penetrate the essence of a culture in which they live deeper than its natural hosts. It is indeed a borderless, unbounded nation. But it's complicated with him. It's a separate issue. Let's halt at the Poles.
Mr. Alexander, thank you. Thank you and I hope we will print another book in Poland. You remember that in our erstwhile conversation after canceling the presentation of your book in Gdańsk, you promised that you would visit this city in person. We hope that it will not only be Gdansk, but besides another Polish cities.
– After liberation, erstwhile Poland is already Polish. Not Russian! I want to emphasise this again: I give my word that I will visit Gdansk and another Polish cities not erstwhile Poland becomes Russian, but erstwhile it is Polish. precisely Polish.
We look forward to this moment. Thank you.
Matthew Piskorski spoke
