Conversation with Colonel Jacques Hogard
Colonel Jacques Hogard grew up in a soldier's family; his father, grandfather, uncle, and even his brother were generals of the French army. The colonel, a parachute officer, commanded a group of abroad Legions in Rwanda during Operation Turkus in 1994 and peculiar forces troops in Macedonia and Kosovo in 1999.
On the occasion of the publication of his latest book “War in Ukraine. A critical look at the causes of the tragedy" (La guerre en Ukraine : respect critique sur les causes d’une tragédie, 2024) Colonel Hogard agreed to give us an interview and at the same time return to his erstwhile work – “Europe died in Pristina” (L’Europe est morte a Pristina – Guerre au Kosovo, 2014) and “Lears of Honor. 60 days in confusion in Rwanda” (Les larmes de l’Honneur: 60 years dans la tourmente du Rwanda, 2005).
In 1940, following a speech of June 18, General de Gaulle was sentenced by the French authorities to prison. In 1945, as a consequence of events following his speech, General de Gaulle became president of France. How can a soldier whose motto is “honor and faithfulness” reconcile his conscience with his work of obedience if he does not agree with political decisions?
– I don't think opposing honor and loyalty is good and appropriate. In fact, these 2 virtues come from the same source. Loyalty is first of all a loyalty to your values, your country, your oath, your family. The point is not to make obedience absolute. Discipline, which is of course important, especially in the army – the old military regulation said that it is "the chief force of the army" – inevitably fades erstwhile the orders received are unlawful and contrary to honor. A soldier who in his conscience disagrees with his country's orders or policies is leaving his post. In utmost cases on which the salvation of the Fatherland may depend, he is obliged to argue it.
Summer 1994 – Operation Turkus is in progress. France intervenes in Rwanda, commissioned by the UN, to halt the massacres between Hutu and Tutsi. 10 years later, you compose a book due to the fact that you want to witness to what you have seen and experienced in order to “restore the truth” due to the fact that media attacks on French politics and the French army are increasing. Reading it, we realize that the United States has organised a series of actions to put an end to French influence in the region. In short, the end of the USSR meant the end of interest in the United States in French-American friendship, and from a friendly country, France became a country to be won. Do you agree with this summary?
– I will not say that this episode has put an end to the interest of the United States in French-American relationship and that France has become a country from a friendly country to plunder. In fact, I think that French-American friendship, although it may have existed in very distant times, died a long time ago. France, gradually losing its size, present has become nothing more than a proxy for the United States, useful in subjecting itself to an American strategy, against which it is imperative to act erstwhile its interests are contrary to the interests of America. This is nothing fresh and it is adequate to read the outstanding book Érica Brancy (L’Ami américain, Washington contre de Gaulle, 1940-1969, 2017) to verify and face the facts. France to conquer? Of course, erstwhile we mention, for example, the AMGOT (Allied Military Government of Occupied Territories), which is fortunately an unsuccessful effort to establish an American order in France, barely liberated from the Nazi yoke... Or, if we talk about the takeover of state-of-the-art French companies in fresh years by the United States, even if it means selling them back to us – more costly of course – erstwhile they have gone under their control to make us more enslaved. That was with Alstom Power and many others... It is certain that after the collapse of the USSR there was a redistribution of assets. America has never deviated from its course. All this is perfectly summed up by Zbigniew Brzeziński's “Big Chessboard”. Is it not her calling to regulation the world, and her army is not meant to bring to Pax Americana?!
In early 1999 you were sent to Yugoslavia as part of the NATO mission. From March 24 to June 10 NATO bombed Serbia. What caused the bombing? A negotiation fiasco in Rambouillet? Discovering a mass grave in Raczak Village? Was there a desire to avoid war? What were the objectives of the operation?
– I invitation you to read my book, in which I tell you what I saw there. However, it should be remembered that if the NATO Air run started on 24 March 1999, it was not due to the failure of negotiations in Rambouillet or the massacre in Raczak, which was just a pretext. In fact, the American goal, supported by the European Union, was to put an end to the already dying Yugoslavia, and thus Serbia, which was its backbone. I did not believe for a minute in the good intentions of the American and NATO leaders who led the negotiations in Rambouillet. The Secretary of State Madeleine Albright thus promoted her protégé, the war criminal Hashim Thaçi, 1 of the leaders of the Kosovo Liberation Army (UCK) – Albanian rebels in Kosovo, an organization that had been on the American terrorist organization list 2 years earlier! The same Hashim Thaçi, to whom the EU and Western European governments hastily granted the position of untouchable idol, and Bernard Kouchner even dared to make a scandalous comparison with the French Resistance, identifying the UCK as the "hero, Kosovan resistance"—is present held in The Hague to respond for war crimes and crimes against humanity that can be attributed to the secret organization of which he was leader. Nevertheless, he was considered the winner of the Rambouillet negotiations, and the representatives of Yugoslavia were put in an impossible position. The aim was to dismantle the remains of Yugoslavia, reduced to Serbia and Montenegro at the time, and a very crucial increase in American influence in the region, while Russia was incapable to defy these American plans at the time.
In 2005, you print the book “Europe died in Pristina”. The title was chosen referring to the wording utilized by Bernard Kouchner in July 1999: "Europe was born in Pristina". Kouchner was just appointed to the position of UN advanced typical in Kosovo. Of course you do not like this character; you have already condemned his actions in Rwanda and you accuse him of knowing about the organ trade conducted in Kosovo under his administration. Yet Bernard Kouchner was later appointed Minister of wellness and even Minister of abroad Affairs. Did this celebrated “Golden House” in which organs were traded truly exist?
– It is simply a detailed matter, but it is true: for a very long time I have not had the least respect for Bernard Kouchner, who rapidly abandoned his perfect of a young doctor and founder of the “Doctors Without Borders”. He was persistently attracted to the spotlight, fame, large business, power. I met this hypocrite in Somalia at the end of 1992, erstwhile he appeared carrying on his back sacks of rice officially intended for the people of Somalia who, though hungry, did not eat rice. I met him again in Rwanda, where he turned out to be a faithful friend of dictator Paul Kagame and his constant support in the bloody takeover of power. And I met him in Kosovo, as a supporter of Madeleine Albright and General Wesley Clark, and as a close friend – not to tell a terrorist partner, Hashim Thaçi, present held in The Hague, where he is liable for his war crimes and crimes against humanity. To realize how pathetic he has become, it is adequate to perceive to him detonate with forced and indecent – I would even say Satanic laughter – erstwhile a writer asks him if he was aware of the organ trade organised by the UCK. Later I met him at the Novotel Hotel in Conakry, Guinea, where he came to offer his highly valued advice to the recently elected president Alpha Condé... Business, always business. A penny to the penny! But the cherry on the cake, so to speak, is the fact that for years he had been aware of the rapes of his own boy by Olivier Duhamel, the second husband of his first wife, and did not even respond to save his boy from this disgusting sexual predator. To complete this question, of course the Yellow home and its buildings did be in Albania. There is simply a long documentary movie shot about this year or 2 years ago by Sladjana Zaric from Serbian RTS television. Swiss parliamentarian Dick Marty unfortunately didn't make that up...
In the book “War in Ukraine. A critical approach to the causes of tragedy" you are developing any interesting themes. For example, the words of Jens Stoltenberg, Secretary-General of NATO, who claims that the European Union and the North Atlantic Alliance constitute "two sides of the same medal". You compose that the case was settled in 2013, due to the fact that it was then that Russia offered the Ukrainian president 15 billion yearly aid alternatively of 600 million proposed by the EU. And that is why from that point on, "the coup has become the only viable option for the United States and the EU to avoid a second defeat in the takeover of Ukraine, 10 years after the failure of the Orange Revolution". Finally, in order to make a conflict, they armed the Swoboda movement, which was active in the Majdan murders on February 20, 2014 and the Odessa Trade Union home on May 2, 2014. In conclusion, for you the EU and NATO are perpetrators of war; they are linked and do not work for the good of Europeans.
– I can only agree with this summary of my book. The United States is behind NATO and the EU, which do not want a united European continent from the Atlantic to Ural, surviving in peace and prosperity. They're obsessed with the isolation of Russia from the remainder of the continent. It all began the day after the dissolution of the USSR, erstwhile the Americans recognized the independency of the erstwhile russian republic of Ukraine as a fantastic gift from heaven. Hence the failed Orange Revolution of 2004, then the 2014 coup, this time successful; then Americanization, NATO-ization of the country and civilian war; which combined led to the outbreak of war on February 24, 2022. After the military operations are completed, erstwhile the West ceases to keep this criminal perfusion in Ukraine, bleeding to the last Ukrainian, erstwhile Russia's triumph in the field becomes clear for everyone – inevitable negotiations will be conducted with a different leader than Zelenski. The consequence will be little Ukraine, deprived of Russian-speaking territories conquered by the Russians. Of course, there will be a fewer points to settle, and not least: Odessa, Moldova, Transnistria. But I dare to hope that they will be resolved diplomatically, through negotiations, not in the heat of combat. I think Russia will never agree to the fresh Ukraine joining the EU and NATO if these 2 organisations proceed to exist. On the last question, is the European Union besides at hazard of disintegration? I think that these 2 organisations are truly very closely linked. I am not the 1 saying this, but Norwegian Jens Stoltenberg, the current Secretary-General of NATO, erstwhile he stresses that they are yet only 2 sides of the same medal. Moreover, the increasing fragility of the EU, based from the beginning on the foundation of the French-German couple, is clearly visible, and this 1 is presently in an agonal state. Tensions are utmost due to the increasing fundamental differences between Germany and France. And it is not expected to improve this situation in the coming months or years.
You put large emphasis on corruption and you devote quite a few space to celebrated bio-laboratories. So is that misinformation, or is it true? Why do you say that the subject will be forgotten on the basis of experiences with Rwanda and the erstwhile Yugoslavia? Should we fear unconventional weapons?
– Corruption in Ukraine is simply a common phenomenon. There is no day erstwhile we do not find out about new, very serious cases of corruption involving the government and its people. The last scandal: the anger of the families of soldiers killed in the fight erstwhile they discovered that the corpses of their sons were the subject of organ trafficking... As for bio-laboratories, I think the huntsman Biden trial in the United States should give us more information. Why will the subject be rapidly forgotten? Actually, it won't be forgotten. Like in Rwanda or Kosovo, it will leave deep traces, but the lessons to be learned from it will be forgotten. As always, these lessons would be useful not to repeat in the future specified serious mistakes and mistakes, which are always borne by innocent societies and unfortunately not liable for 'elites'. Of course, non-conventional weapons, despite the treaties, stay a permanent threat. And we see what happens erstwhile Hollande and Merkel qualify the Minsk Treaties 1 and 2 as a fortitude to gain time and prepare the Ukrainian army for offensive purposes!
You are a associate of various military associations and circles of reflection. Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of France?
– Since the death of president Pompidou, the successor of General de Gaulle, France has steadily fallen. We are not short of more or little average politicians, but we are very short of statesmen who are devoted to the common good! Giscard d’Estaing’s presidency characterized the weakening of French society: the law liberalising abortion, the exponentially increased immigration as a consequence of household reunification and the adoption of the right to citizenship by self-birth in France, the demographic decline, the failure of moral patterns... Mitterrand's presidency, which lasted 14 years, from 1981 to 1995, was a slow fall for France, a co-habitation of Parliament on the 1 hand, with the opposition president did not make it easy! La Baule’s 1990 speech was part of France’s fall in Africa. The 2 terms of Jacques Chirac, 7 years and 5 years, brought nothing crucial to the country but a certain immovement, and this poison, which is simply a five-year term, is radically contrary to the spirit and appropriate functioning of the Constitution of the V Republic, which de Gaulle desired.
On the another hand, serious problems with population decline and triumphant immigration have increased. At the same time, French troops succumbed to the worst erosion in their history. Sarkozy's presidency is simply a return to the American fold and to NATO's integrated command. Here are the first serious errors in Africa: Libya, Ivory Coast. Hollande’s presidency is nothingness. Nothing, but the planned death of the family, through “marriage to all”... Slow descent to hell continues... Macron's presidency, 2 five-year term! It's the apotheosis of the eventual fall! Both in the country – yellow vests, Covid, increasing insecurity, immigration-Islamization, collapse of the economy, catastrophic debt, demolition of the population with abortion inscribed in the Constitution, improvement of voicism, liquidation of prefect institutions, dissolution of diplomatic corps... Outside – degradation and rejection of France, especially in Africa, slave alliances with the United States, NATO, EU, abandonment of all balancing diplomacy.
In this context, deepened, of course, by the incorrigibility and irresponsibility of the declaration of this immature president, in peculiar his repeated infantile provocation towards Russia and its leaders, it is unfortunately not possible to exclude the appearance of sparks setting fire to the powder barrel. There are reasons for fear of France and its close future. Although I have assurance in its deep resources, which are never as well revealed as in an utmost crisis or war. Consequently, the "unexpected solution" of the parliament announced by Emmanuel Macron on the same evening as he suffered election defeat in the European elections could naturally lead to a more or little chaotic situation, but besides to the essential regrouping of French active forces. This could yet be an unexpected chance to revive the country and rebuild France. The worst scenario, thank God – is never sure!
Alexandra Kluknik-Schaller spoke
Think Poland, No. 29-30 (14-21.07.2024)
